SCTA might take another look at the 200 mph Lexan rule [keep the 250 + rule] as this is going to be a real hardship on certain cars.
Our Camaro was not a problem as several companies make all the molded windows but widows for all cars are not available.
We though we had the flexing out potential problem covered but 3 of our 5 runs had to be shut down early
because the side windows flexed out even after bracing and more Velcro. On one run I still qualified but had to shut down early in the 3.
We had the Pro-stock style window hooks but they didn't hold at speeds over 230 or so.
The funny cars have large holes in the side windows but not sure widow flexing is why.
Even though moulded Lexan is available for some cars it still has to be custom fit and in our case $1600
JL222
I do believe that the HonData crews CRX lost a driverside window(right-hand drive) just over 200 or so, but it was tempered glass with the window safety film. Guess what, it still went into a billion little pieces. That's why the rule was made. The film, IMO, doesn't work.
I know you had to devote time to attempting to stabilize those side windows and apparently it didn't accomplish as much as you desired.
It's a case of a rule with good intentions creating other problems.
Hope u can rectify your situation and just run w/o having to watch for the window to blow out.
FREUD
Quote from: Freud on September 13, 2011, 07:57:22 PM
I know you had to devote time to attempting to stabilize those side windows and apparently it didn't accomplish as much as you desired.
It's a case of a rule with good intentions creating other problems.
Hope u can rectify your situation and just run w/o having to watch for the window to blow out.
FREUD
We got it fixed up to about 280 but then I spun :cry:
JL222
Have you guys thought of building a channel onto the door like NASCAR guys then using the Hartwell lathes on the side to release the side window to get out in an emergency? That's what we will be fabricating for the Firebird. You will be able to pull on a cord to release both latches from the inside and the channel should keep it from pulling out at speed Tony
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/maguromic/nascarwindow_1.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/maguromic/nascarwindow.jpg)
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 13, 2011, 07:51:54 PM
I do believe that the HonData crews CRX lost a driverside window(right-hand drive) just over 200 or so, but it was tempered glass with the window safety film. Guess what, it still went into a billion little pieces. That's why the rule was made. The film, IMO, doesn't work.
My concern is some teams not being able to get windows.
JL222
I believe the holes in Funny cars is so they can stick a fire bottle nozzle in without having to open anything. I had thought that If I have a problem with the Lexan windows, I'll use metal, fixed supports. I wouldn't expect side window flex on a Vega. The backlite might need some support.
Most car manufacturers have kit available through their racing division, but a few will have to either have them made or do it on their own.
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 13, 2011, 08:26:00 PM
Most car manufacturers have kit available through their racing division, but a few will have to either have them made or do it on their own.
yea, no problem,same thinking as 90% of club reps that voted for rule and dont't have a CLUE of problems or cost involved.
Oh yea just make your own no problem :roll:
JL222
Just thought of a way to pick up glass :-D A lawn tractor with bagger cost about $3000 + trailer
Don't have bagger on mine but will test on windows I took out. Maybe put 3 or 4 garbage bags on discharge.
JL222
Quote from: jl222 on September 13, 2011, 08:36:51 PM
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 13, 2011, 08:26:00 PM
Most car manufacturers have kit available through their racing division, but a few will have to either have them made or do it on their own.
yea, no problem,same thinking as 90% of club reps that voted for rule and dont't have a CLUE of problems or cost involved.
Oh yea just make your own no problem :roll:
JL222
I didn't notice anyone stepping up to say no at the meeting, let me guess you didn't make it. Remember it's a volunteer organization. What if the car in front of you on the salt lost a glass window and ALL the help said, I don't feel like picking up glass anymore. Then you run and shred a set of mickeys. Not to mention the guys/ladies on the line sweating it away in the sun waiting. If you have a better solution you should go to the rules meeting and suggest it.
"I do believe that the Hondata crews CRX lost a driverside window(right-hand drive) just over 200 or so, but it was tempered glass with the window safety film. Guess what, it still went into a billion little pieces. That's why the rule was made. The film, IMO, doesn't work."
The window was replaced prior to the Sept El Mirage meet with Lexan and survived a 200mph+ run, a 176mph spin out and a 190mph slide. The window was made out of a sheet, not a kit. Tabs were welded to the frame and the Lexan was screwed and glued to the frame. Getting it into the enclosed trailer is a bit of a hassle - (the kids will just have to stay skinny) but we are working around it.
The testing proved that even the best safety film (and we even tried the 3M industrial hurricane film) wouldn't keep a window together when dropped. The window flexes and the film breaks away - let alone scraping along the ground. I really wanted the film to work, but had to concede that it just didn't - and the car proved it.
On the bright side - the new glass sweeper proved to be effective. :-)
Mac, thanks for the update. Some people just don't understand, they want to go faster but not update the safety end of it. Who knows maybe we could go back to sprung seats and rollbars with a jacket and a brain bucket. IMO I still think our little changes don't cost as much as running in a pro series racing circuit. Peter
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 13, 2011, 09:48:01 PM
Quote from: jl222 on September 13, 2011, 08:36:51 PM
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 13, 2011, 08:26:00 PM
Most car manufacturers have kit available through their racing division, but a few will have to either have them made or do it on their own.
yea, no problem,same thinking as 90% of club reps that voted for rule and dont't have a CLUE of problems or cost involved.
Oh yea just make your own no problem :roll:
JL222
I didn't notice anyone stepping up to say no at the meeting, let me guess you didn't make it. Remember it's a volunteer organization. What if the car in front of you on the salt lost a glass window and ALL the help said, I don't feel like picking up glass anymore. Then you run and shred a set of mickeys. Not to mention the guys/ladies on the line sweating it away in the sun waiting. If you have a better solution you should go to the rules meeting and suggest it.
I don't live 30 minutes away and there aren't many no men
Hey my Lexan and problems are fixed and if its alright with everyone do it, but there are those that are scared to death to say anything and I am finding out why.
JL222
What's that supposed to mean? Why are they SO scared?
Peter, I don't think that expressing ones frustration with a rule they've clearly tried to comply with is wanting to "go faster but not update the safety end of it". Troy's busted his hump trying to make this work safely.
I vacillate on this issue, especially when it comes to production based vehicles. My Lexan is in - it remains unproven.
Troy, I remember taking pictures of your set-up with the window bracing - I really don't know what more you can do to make it work. The Camaro has no frame to attach to. I also remember posting earlier when this rule was being debated on the forums that blow out could be a problem. Tabs won't work on your set-up - or mine.
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 13, 2011, 09:59:06 PM
Mac, thanks for the update. Some people just don't understand, they want to go faster but not update the safety end of it. Who knows maybe we could go back to sprung seats and rollbars with a jacket and a brain bucket. IMO I still think our little changes don't cost as much as running in a pro series racing circuit. Peter
If your referring to me I'm updated. I can see it doesn't concern a pro-circuit racer like you that some racers will have to park there cars.
No sh..t doesn't cost as much :roll:
JL222
The only person I am scared of is my wife. :-o Tony
Quote from: Milwaukee Midget on September 13, 2011, 10:11:20 PM
Peter, I don't think that expressing ones frustration with a rule they've clearly tried to comply with is wanting to "go faster but not update the safety end of it". Troy's busted his hump trying to make this work safely.
I vacillate on this issue, especially when it comes to production based vehicles. My Lexan is in - it remains unproven.
Troy, I remember taking pictures of your set-up with the window bracing - I really don't know what more you can do to make it work. The Camaro has no frame to attach to. I also remember posting earlier when this rule was being debated on the forums that blow out could be a problem. Tabs won't work on your set-up - or mine.
MM...Troy is Bvillercr I'm John ....JL222
Quote from: jl222 on September 13, 2011, 10:11:57 PM
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 13, 2011, 09:59:06 PM
Mac, thanks for the update. Some people just don't understand, they want to go faster but not update the safety end of it. Who knows maybe we could go back to sprung seats and rollbars with a jacket and a brain bucket. IMO I still think our little changes don't cost as much as running in a pro series racing circuit. Peter
If your referring to me I'm updated. I can see it doesn't concern a pro-circuit racer like you that some racers will have to park there cars.
No sh..t doesn't cost as much :roll:
JL222
So what your saying is that we should rewrite the rule book to let people who can't figure out installing a lexan window play, that's why we're amatures, but they will spend $10,000+ on a new engine to get a record in a different class. By the way, I am far from a PRO racer. I do what I can when I can.
:oops:
Names, Faces, Handles, Studebakers, Camaros - it's tough keeping 'em all straight.
John, excuse me while I wipe the egg from my face . . .
Chris
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 13, 2011, 10:28:09 PM
Quote from: jl222 on September 13, 2011, 10:11:57 PM
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 13, 2011, 09:59:06 PM
Mac, thanks for the update. Some people just don't understand, they want to go faster but not update the safety end of it. Who knows maybe we could go back to sprung seats and rollbars with a jacket and a brain bucket. IMO I still think our little changes don't cost as much as running in a pro series racing circuit. Peter
If your referring to me I'm updated. I can see it doesn't concern a pro-circuit racer like you that some racers will have to park there cars.
No sh..t doesn't cost as much :roll:
JL222
So what your saying is that we should rewrite the rule book to let people who can't figure out installing a lexan window play, that's why we're amatures, but they will spend $10,000+ on a new engine to get a record in a different class. By the way, I am far from a PRO racer. I do what I can when I can.
What i'm trying to say is some cars have compound curved rear windows that they can't get ...get it.
And there is going to be a bunch of pissed off 200 mph racers when they find out they can't get Lexan for their cars
and even more when they follow some of the advice here and try to make their own.
JL222
I may be new to this and will stay out of the things I would like to say but if a person cant make a lexan window and comply they may not be in the right venue.......................... :wink:
The rule doesn't just apply to 200+ mph cars. Next year if you have a frameless window with non laminated glass you need to replace it with plastic. The hooker is that you also have to replace all of the other non laminated glass in the car if you have frameless door windows. I don't see the logic in that and nobody including people from the rules committee haven't been able to answer that question. The non logic in this rule is that if the side window is laminated you can keep the other tempered glass.
So I will need to replace my rear window even though if I had a framed side window I wouldn't. This is sorta like saying if your side window is red you have to also replace your rear window.
This could get expensive since nobody makes polycarbonate for my car and the rear window has a compound curve. Since I don't have a large oven I may need to have one built.
For cars that cannot find/make polycarbonate windows, would it be legal to replace the window with a fiberglass or metal panel of the same shape as the original window?
Compared to making up poly carbonate windows it sounds like it would be a lot easier/cheaper to pull a mold off the original glass window, lay up a thick fiberglass panel with necessary braces etc. Perhaps with small polycarbonate panels to let in some light. The metal smiths could also roll a metal duplicate panel or at least the complex curves and fit slightly curved poly-carbonate panels in the window duplicate.
Its not like you need to see out of the back glass to back the car out of a parking spot?
The rules about form and fit of body panels I would assume should equally apply to window replacements. If you can replace a door or a whole body with a fiberglass replica I would think a window could be replaced with one too.
If you use un-pigmented resin and do not paint it, you would have a white/translucent panel to replace the glass so you could have interior sun illumination. Give it just enough color (pale blue perhaps) to make it easy to find if it blows out on the salt and you are done.
The real challenge here would be proving the duplicate panel is identical in shape and fit to the original glass.
Larry
For consideration
http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-95-window-install-kits-race.aspx
If those are not beefy enough a heavier duty version could be made.
Quote from: Tman on September 14, 2011, 10:07:13 AM
For consideration
http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-95-window-install-kits-race.aspx
If those are not beefy enough a heavier duty version could be made.
The compound rear window is the biggest problem.
JL222
I teched a car at Speed Week that had full lexan windows including the small rear quarter windows with a compund curve in them. I ask where they came from and the vehicle owner told me he made them himself. He didn't petition to have the rule changed, he didn't launch a campaign against the SCTA, he didn't cry about it on some forum. He just did it. And I have a feeling that the other 300+ cars and trucks that come to Speed Week next year will have also just done it whether it means buying or making your own.
My simple advice to anyone who thinks this is really a problem is don't let lexan windows be the straw that broke your back. If you've made it this far through all the rule changes and upgrades there's no reason why lexan windows should be a game ender for you.
Quote from: NathanStewart on September 14, 2011, 10:47:25 AM
I teched a car at Speed Week that had full lexan windows including the small rear quarter windows with a compund curve in them. I ask where they came from and the vehicle owner told me he made them himself. He didn't petition to have the rule changed, he didn't launch a campaign against the SCTA, he didn't cry about it on some forum. He just did it. And I have a feeling that the other 300+ cars and trucks that come to Speed Week next year will have also just done it whether it means buying or making your own.
My simple advice to anyone who thinks this is really a problem is don't let lexan windows be the straw that broke your back. If you've made it this far through all the rule changes and upgrades there's no reason why lexan windows should be a game ender for you.
Was that the 240 I was watching you tech?
Quote from: NathanStewart on September 14, 2011, 10:47:25 AM
I teched a car at Speed Week that had full lexan windows including the small rear quarter windows with a compund curve in them. I ask where they came from and the vehicle owner told me he made them himself. He didn't petition to have the rule changed, he didn't launch a campaign against the SCTA, he didn't cry about it on some forum. He just did it. And I have a feeling that the other 300+ cars and trucks that come to Speed Week next year will have also just done it whether it means buying or making your own.
My simple advice to anyone who thinks this is really a problem is don't let lexan windows be the straw that broke your back. If you've made it this far through all the rule changes and upgrades there's no reason why lexan windows should be a game ender for you.
The SMALL coumpound curve rear window :roll:
Nathen you think an apposing view, submiting a rule change is a campaige against the SCTA , or crying? we changed all our glass with no protest as over 250 mph doesn't affect many cars and is a fair rule. Oh and nobody noticed our Lexan. :roll:
I wasn't going to say anything and just sit back and let every body else go through our problems but changed my mind to the possibility that the SCTA would take another look at the rule. And I'm not going to summitt a rule change on it.
THIS 200 MPH RULE DOESN'T AFFECT ME.
Nathen your adittude is why more members don't speak up. Masda 1807 are you listening :? Nathen is proving my point.
JL222
P.S. What is this new sweeper?
Quote from: Tman on September 14, 2011, 11:26:41 AM
Was that the 240 I was watching you tech?
Yes. Cool little car and nice guys.
Lexan is very easy to bend/form to meet the shape of a stock window. The big problem as I see it, is useing .125 thick material. The stock window is close to .250 thick, so why not build a lexan window to be an exact copy of the stock window, put it in place of the stock window and roll it up just like stock. I understand this is too simple, but give it a try. If you need more help on forming lexan, give me an E-Mail. Its real easy if you live in warm country. Try it/you'll like it.
Quote from: NathanStewart on September 14, 2011, 12:55:39 PM
Quote from: Tman on September 14, 2011, 11:26:41 AM
Was that the 240 I was watching you tech?
Yes. Cool little car and nice guys.
I remember his comment when you asked him about the Lexan. See, I was listening and learning! :-D
Quote from: jl222 on September 14, 2011, 11:42:54 AM
The SMALL coumpound curve rear window :roll:
Nathen you think an apposing view, submiting a rule change is a campaige against the SCTA , or crying? we changed all our glass with no protest as over 250 mph doesn't affect many cars and is a fair rule. Oh and nobody noticed our Lexan. :roll:
I wasn't going to say anything and just sit back and let every body else go through our problems but changed my mind to the possibility that the SCTA would take another look at the rule. And I'm not going to summitt a rule change on it.
THIS 200 MPH RULE DOESN'T AFFECT ME.
Nathen your adittude is why more members don't speak up. Masda 1807 are you listening :? Nathen is proving my point.
JL222
P.S. What is this new sweeper?
John, I'm not a philosophical person and I don't like being philosophical but I have a philosophy here. But first some background...
Once when I was younger I over heard two guys talking and one of them says "Hey see that guy over there, that's Miler Mike Stewart. That guy's an asshole! He threw so and so out of impound because..." and of course no kid likes hearing his dad being called an asshole so I took offense to it and it kinda made me feel bad. The next time I saw my dad and told him about this and he kind of just shrugged it off but then he says "Well someone has to be the asshole. It's not a fun job and no one likes doing it but someone has to do it. Someone has to say no. If someone doesn't do it then it all goes to shit."
For a long time I thought man, why would someone ever want to be the asshole but then I started to get it. It's about following the rules; respecting the rules. It's about supporting the system and that means saying no and being an asshole sometimes. I've found that there are those that go along with things and do what they have to do because it's the rules and then there are those that will bitch and complain and cry and want things changed so they don't have to do something they don't agree with and to those guys you just have to say no.
So that's my attitude. I'm the asshole. If you don't like the rules then you probably won't like me because I have bought into the system and I believe in it. I also believe that most inspectors have bought into and believe in the rules and the system and what we do so we must all be assholes then. I'm just one of the few of us that actually post on here.
John, what are you hoping to accomplish posting this here and NOT submitting a rule change? I submitted my rule changes on August 31st, why didn't you? Too little too late man.
But hey, if it's all in the sake of conversation then by all means let's talk about it. Things have been kind of slow on here lately so I guess we have something to talk about now.
Quote from: jl222 on September 14, 2011, 11:42:54 AM
The SMALL coumpound curve rear window :roll:
Maybe instead of rolling your eyes you should read what I actually wrote. It wasn't the back window, it was the rear quarter windows on a hatchback that have both a longitudinal and lateral curve in them. If that guy can do it then what's preventing anyone else from doing it??
Nathan, I agree with everything you just said. Kudos
Quote from: NathanStewart on September 14, 2011, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: jl222 on September 14, 2011, 11:42:54 AM
The SMALL coumpound curve rear window :roll:
Maybe instead of rolling your eyes you should read what I actually wrote. It wasn't the back window, it was the rear quarter windows on a hatchback that have both a longitudinal and lateral curve in them. If that guy can do it then what's preventing anyone else from doing it??
Nathen, do the same. Look at what you quoted, it says rear not back. Take a breath. :roll:
Quote from: jl222 on September 14, 2011, 10:47:08 AM
Quote from: Tman on September 14, 2011, 10:07:13 AM
For consideration
http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-95-window-install-kits-race.aspx
If those are not beefy enough a heavier duty version could be made.
The compound rear window is the biggest problem.
JL222
In your first post you said you were worried about the side windows flexing out. Nothing about the rear. :wink:
Nice link! What I think he meant was that the biggest problem for others, is molding a decklid window when there may not be one available to purchase. :cheers:
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 14, 2011, 02:42:46 PM
Nathan, I agree with everything you just said. Kudos
Birds of a feather flock together.
JL222
Nathan... I'm not submitting a rule change because it does NOT effect our car, every thing has been done
with no complaints. BUT even though we have a popular car and every thing was available it still took a lot of time. Also we wanted 1/4'' tinted glass and had to settle for 3/16. and most companies only have 1/8'' peroid.
I guess you can't get it in your ALPHA attitude that somebody would have the audacity to even suggest
that a rule needs to be changed because there all beyond a state of inprovement [perfect] and especially from someone a rule doesn't directly effect.
It might be before your ALPHA time, but remember when the 200 mph line was taken away?
Then Scotty's muffler roadster made a hair raising run and everybody was having second thoughts.
I was the rep that made a motion [that was passed] to reinstate the 200 mph line.
And it was very frustrating when Roy Creel wouldn't let us run in the 200 mph line when we held the record
in AA at 229mph since 1990.
And even more frustrating when we left our car home [had duty] because our starting position was so bad AND
LO AND BEHOLD there is the Hod Rod magazine camaro in the 200 mph lane David Frieberger driving And I'm not sure but a Rookie.
Nathan your the rookie guy, was he?
JL222
Masda1807... getting any more hints?
John,
Rules aren't perfect, never said they were but there is a system in place for changing those rules and you already know this. The rule has already changed and is already in place. This situation is no different than lateral head supports or HANS devices or when we made the change from only requiring a 4 point cages to 5 or 6 point cages (remember that?). People always throw a fit when they have to change something on their car whether it be because cost or time or whatever. People have said, "well that means I'll have to completely cut out my cage and re-do it". Well I guess if that's what it'll take then yeah, you'll have to cut out your cage and start over. It'd be no different in any other form of somewhat serious racing where they care about their competitors safety.
Speaking of rules aren't perfect, I submitted rule changes for things that don't even affect me. In fact, I don't even really have a car nor do I plan on building one any time soon but I saw room for improvement so I did it anyways.
What you're suggesting is not making a rule better. You want the SCTA to renig on a rule that's already been set in motion to become effective next year. And why? Because of hardship. Really? Everyone who makes it through tech so far has had to do some pretty tough stuff to even get to that point. You don't just fall out of a tree and bamm-oh you pass tech. It takes effort, time, and probably money (more so if you're the buying type versus the building type). So all of a sudden out of allllllll the things everyone is already having to do, you think lexan windows is going to be final nail in the coffin? Seriously?
Last year it was HANS devices, the year before that it was lateral head supports, etc. etc, and so on and so on. Racing's tough man as I'm sure you and anyone else who's ever done it knows. But the train has already left the station, the cow is already out of the barn, Elvis has already left the building. If you really thought it should be changed then you would have submitted a rules change request even though you already meet the requirement. After all, you're concerned about the hardship someone else might have to face, right? If you're trying to drum up support by talking about it here, then fine, go right ahead. I'm not stopping you nor is anyone else. But don't get bent when the reality of the fact is that it's not going to change and it cost you $1600 to be complient and it may or may not cost someone else the same thing. THATS RACING DUDE. Don't get hung up on some pieces of expensive plastic man.
Whay I get hung up on is you , callling someone who proposes a rule change [that is already in place] launching
a campiagn against the SCTA or crying.
I remember a certain Dad requesting a rule change [that was already in place]at a SCTA meeting, wanted to lower the driving age so his son could drive. Can't remember if it passed or exact date but several years ago. No body thought he was having a campaign against the SCTA nobody thought he was a crybaby.
I can't remember the year but if I knew your age I could figure it out.
JL222
After last weekend's ElMo event the SHOULDER HARNESS location interpretation hysteria is still DEFINITELY a gray area or - a tech guy's who is on a POWER TRIP of effing with the racer's dream!
Drama, not needed.
Quote from: jl222 on September 13, 2011, 07:32:02 PM
The funny cars have large holes in the side windows
but not sure widow flexing is why.
My understanding, the holes on the Funny Cars are for fire extinguisher access.
When everyone got on the aero kick, a few guys ran without any side openings.
Eventually, they figured out that was a bad idea, for safety.
Hints about what? I was just stating the facts, and you went and blew this dieing horse all to crap. I'm just sick of all the b/s about what's it gonna cost or what someones gonna have to do. It's all irrelevant, if we want to race we're going to do what ever it takes. Peter
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 14, 2011, 09:46:03 PM
Hints about what? I was just stating the facts, and you went and blew this dieing horse all to crap. I'm just sick of all the b/s about what's it gonna cost or what someones gonna have to do. It's all irrelevant, if we want to race we're going to do what ever it takes. Peter
Good one Peter, I hear the resounding thump of a dropped hot potato! :cheers:
Quote from: hotrod on September 14, 2011, 07:32:54 AM
For cars that cannot find/make polycarbonate windows, would it be legal to replace the window with a fiberglass or metal panel of the same shape as the original window?
Compared to making up poly carbonate windows it sounds like it would be a lot easier/cheaper to pull a mold off the original glass window, lay up a thick fiberglass panel with necessary braces etc. Perhaps with small polycarbonate panels to let in some light. The metal smiths could also roll a metal duplicate panel or at least the complex curves and fit slightly curved poly-carbonate panels in the window duplicate.
Its not like you need to see out of the back glass to back the car out of a parking spot?
The rules about form and fit of body panels I would assume should equally apply to window replacements. If you can replace a door or a whole body with a fiberglass replica I would think a window could be replaced with one too.
If you use un-pigmented resin and do not paint it, you would have a white/translucent panel to replace the glass so you could have interior sun illumination. Give it just enough color (pale blue perhaps) to make it easy to find if it blows out on the salt and you are done.
The real challenge here would be proving the duplicate panel is identical in shape and fit to the original glass.
Larry
Before I bit bullet and made lexan for my car ( maybe the 240 referred to here- I did make the compound curve quarter windows as the lone (that I could find) supposed supplier of formed ones-= Percy's speedglass- was retooling and not available) I asked Steve Davies about replacing with metal (fiberglass would work too as Hotrod Larry asks). He said that though would "look funny" as long as the window was not needed for driver visibility (as door windows would be to meet the 120* vision rule) they would be legal. Forming metal, unless you are good with an english wheel or something (not me) would be harder than the lexan. Mine were far from perfect, I learned some doing it, screwed up some stuff etc, but they worked. Only went 160 so didn't need anyway.:(. However, having broken some of the tempered stuff getting it out of the car, I can sure see the reason for the plastic cover or lexan on non laminated glass rule. That crap goes everywhere>
Quote from: gearheadeh on September 15, 2011, 08:47:05 AM
Quote from: MAZDA1807 on September 14, 2011, 09:46:03 PM
Hints about what? I was just stating the facts, and you went and blew this dieing horse all to crap. I'm just sick of all the b/s about what's it gonna cost or what someones gonna have to do. It's all irrelevant, if we want to race we're going to do what ever it takes. Peter
Good one Peter, I hear the resounding thump of a dropped hot potato! :cheers:
Peter @ Masda 1807.... the hint or are you learning anything is why racers are afraid to vote or post about rule changes
or even trying to find ways for a better grated course.
Maybe you guys could go back and review my post and get a clue. #1 Nathan stated that [ I,[ not specifically] a by posting this tread was against the SCTA #2 crying, #3 Not being allowed to run in the 200 mph line by past race director.
What are they scared of,in my case being labled as.
#1 against the SCTA
#2 crybaby
#3 reprisals for speaking out or instigating a rule change or being on the side of bike racer when the SCTA was trying
to take his championship away for not having a Log book # sticker on his bike. I informed them [to their dismay] that not
all log books were issued with #s the 222car being one of them.
#4 mistake?
#5 mistake maybe but doesn't jive.
Peter I thought ''the resounding thump of a dropped hot potatoe'' was my unanswered post about the Hot rod magazine
Camaro being in the 200 mph line and the driver being a rookie,
THUMP....JL222
is it just me or is there a lot of people really upset with the SCTA lately? We sure don't hear these kind of things with Bubs and the AMA.
Hey, maybe metal to replace door windows is the answer.
With my helmet extention's, I can't see out the side anyway............... :-D
I don't know -- so I'll ask.
Why can't one build a frame on a frameless window? It surely wouldn't be streamlining.
Stan
Quote from: nrhs sales on September 15, 2011, 01:16:48 PM
is it just me or is there a lot of people really upset with the SCTA lately? We sure don't hear these kind of things with Bubs and the AMA.
BUB doesn't run cars or am I mistaken?
OK, does this new rule for 2012 mean that NO cars OVR 200 can use glass anywhere ?
My windshield and compound curve rear/back glass are both factor laminated safety glass
with the required metal retention tabs...
My door windows and back side windows are all Lexan..
So do I have use Lexan for the Windshield and Back/Rear Glass ?
Charles
"My windshield and compound curve rear/back glass are both factor laminated safety glass
with the required metal retention tabs..."
The rule only effects tempered glass - the laminated type, which is in windshields, is ok. Some older vehicles also have laminated glass as standard in other places. It will say it on the corner of the glass.
"does this new rule for 2012 mean that NO cars OVR 200 can use glass anywhere ?"
The decision was made to phase in the rule over 2 years to help with the cost. The most concern was cars over 250mph. The second area was cars exceeding 200mph and then frameless windows of any speed. The 200mph mark was chosen as there are other requirements that a car has to meet at that level, such as roll cage bar thickness, fire extinguishers, 5 lug wheels, (you get the idea). Trying to be consistent here. Again, tempered glass or frameless glass are the only ones effected.
Quote from: Stan Back on September 15, 2011, 03:42:25 PM
I don't know -- so I'll ask.
Why can't one build a frame on a frameless window? It surely wouldn't be streamlining.
Stan
This is what we did on our drag car (69 Firebird ) along with the pro-stock style latch at the top of the window. So far we've only ran in the 180s with no problems. We have a 63 Fairlane in our camp that has lexan windows all the way around that were made in the garage using the original glass as a pattern.
Wish I had taken my camera today. We went to the downtown Clovis antique show-swapmeet and they also had an older sports cars show.
There was a Can-Am Lola coupe there [looked like a Ford GT40] the Lexan door windows had a small sliding Lexan window which one could open [ to steer car in trailer in our case]
Also the rear flaps on spoiler, about 2'', had adjustable support rods.
Best of all I found 7 old Hot rod mags from 1963-68 Art arforns jet car-the hemi elephant-Granatelli turbine
4-wheel drive Indy car-Drake's blown offy-Breedloves Spirit of America-Micky Thompson 24 valve head ,
565 hp from 305 inches and ford indy V8 in 67 Mustang Bville car. All for $18 :-D
JL222
P.S. The winner of the car show was the won that leaked the most oil :-P
They had sheets of paper under cars and the crowd voted on the most oiled :-D
We had a problem with our 3/16'' thick side widows coming out at the front at speedweek even though we had Hardwell pro-stock type latches and Velcro to hold it in.
Ist run widow bows out about 1'' shut down.
2nd run add MORE Velcro towards front, still comes out.
3rd run add brace from top of door to window, still comes out but about 255 mph or more, shut down in 3
but qualfied for record run.
Record run, added another brace on top of 1st brace but further down on more solid part of door.
Widow did not come out after speed of 270-280 mph but spun car,
ANYHOW i'm now wondering if widow is flexing out from low pressure on outside of window instead of high pressure from inside.
We had to push like hell to get them to pop out from inside after installation.
We still have driprails on car and the windows are set in about 3/4''
JL222
The cars without window frames ( Camaros ) its going to be tough to keep the windows in. I spent allot of time and money to make my windows secure, they fit tight now and had no problems to 258. Changing to lexan will make the windows more flexible and prone to blowing out. I would like to see a compromise on this blanket rule.
Does anyone know anything about the new glass sweeper that worked so well in Mac's post?
JL222
I had one in my trailer, left it at the clean up site, Damn thing came back, I don't know how well it worked.
DW
Quote from: dw230 on September 26, 2011, 11:09:46 AM
I had one in my trailer, left it at the clean up site, Dodge thing came back, I don't know how well it worked.
DW
what is it?
JL222
Some kind of picker upper. I don't think it is powered. Want to keeo it at your pit?
DW
Pic of glass pickerupper
Quote from: thundersalt on September 27, 2011, 09:16:28 AM
Pic of glass pickerupper
Looks like he's eatin it :-D
JL222
On this subject I'm 100% with John (JL222), having us modify on side window, especially the drivers side windows to lexan is just dumb, dumb! This is one of the reasons why I'm ending my Land Speed racing, (other reaons are also because of running out of money after 18 years of racing), I can see the need to replace any rear window that are tempered glass with lexan, but doing this to the side windows will present engineering problems to design for cars like my Avanti and even if you could make a side rollup window, it may cause a safety problem it you can't release the window when trying to open the drivers door from the inside in an emergency (fire). Or it may end up at hight speed above 200mph just sucking out the entire side window because of it flexing, so in my case I'm ending my racing so I won't have to worry about this dumb rule. I'm on the "Coupe/sedan rules committee" but only the chairman was allowed to vote on this issue. So I think it will be a problem at high speed with cars blowing their windows out from the suction at high speed. In all the 18 years of racing at Bonnevile I have only seen one car blow it side window out which did require a lot of time picking up the glasss, but I have seen 10 or more cars blowing out the rear window at over 200 mph, so I do support making us use lexan for the rear windows, which is what I did and bolted it into the rear of the car. My car is heading to the Studebaker Musuem next June so I don't need to worry about this crazy rule for 2012, thanks for your time, Dave :cheers:
Quote from: thundersalt on September 27, 2011, 09:16:28 AM
Pic of glass pickerupper
Thanks for that , I was eating my lunch. :wink:
I think I have found a workable solution to the Lexan side windows being flimsy.
Stop by the Jack Rogers pits (757 Camaro) and look at what we have done. It is hard to describe so it would be easier to just look at it.
You could also look at the frames and supports that were built for the windows on the Blowfish. Over 300 mph without any issues. Tony
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/maguromic/blowfish.jpg)
Quote from: maguromic on October 03, 2011, 11:05:28 PM
You could also look at the frames and supports that were built for the windows on the Blowfish. Over 300 mph without any issues. Tony
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/maguromic/blowfish.jpg)
This is what I did with mine. It was a kit with tubes, tabs, bending fixture and bolts etc. Have to pay attention and not weld all the tabs on the wrong side of the tube like I did one side! :cry: Don't remember where kit came from, Moroso maybe. Will look up if anyone interested. Probably took me a day for each side. A pro could likely do in couple hours.
I just came upon these guys while I was doing a search on the internet. Hope it might help.
http://proglasswindows.com/
Pete
Or you could try the link I posted back on page 2 :roll: :-D
http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-95-window-install-kits-race.aspx
Cut an exact duplicate of the stock glass out of 1/4" 6061 aluminum. Cut the center out leaving 4 to 6 inches of aluminum all the way around. Mill a 1/2" step on the inside of the opening. Run through sheet metal roller, to curve aluminum to match original glass. Mount lexan in this step. Mount in regulator. You now have a very strong rigid window that will still roll down.
CoolPerformance, I like your idea best! lets go for it, sounds legal to me! :cheers: