I`m new to the board and wanted to throw something out to you guys. I teach auto tech at Laguna Hills HS - Orange County Ca. and was hoping someday to actually build a LSR car and run it. It looks like our classes (5) and myself may have the opportunity to do this. There is a foundation that is called collectors foundation and they award grants to schools, museums, etc to keep the art of restoration for cars and boats available to our younger generation. As an autoshop teacher I see this knowledge slipping away along with the programs themselves. We`ve lost 2 programs in our district already in the last 2 years. Our program is strong and I am very lucky that my administration knows the value of career technical education. BTW I am an ROP teacher, spent 30 years in the heavy equipment industry and was given the opportunity to do this. Anyway, I spoke to the director of the foundation and he really likes our idea of a LSR car. What I need to do is try and find an older car that has been at one time run competively but now has been sitting for some time but could be brought back to life to see the salt again. I have restored cars and motorcycles in the past and my classes currently have a 1969.5 Maverick that they built as a street rod. We`ll be showing it at the All Ford Show at Knott`s Berry Farm on the 22nd. I haven`t received the grant, there is a process and I have no guarantee of getting it but it looks good on paper. I need your help! Does anyone know of an older car that would fit our needs? Sorry for the long post but I feel this is a win win situation, not only for the kids but the LSR community as well. Please PM me or email me if can help us. Thanks!
Watch the classifieds here. Rich Fox moved his car recenlty and it would have been PERFECT for your program. There is a nice roadster there now as well.
Does this car need to be a donation or will you have funding for a purchase?
DW
Good question - we would love a donation, they are tax deductable and the owner determines the value (within reason) I do have a `64 Galaxie 4dr Custom 500 that were cleaning up, brakes, tune, etc. Has a brand new interior and the new "old" distrest look. Arizona car with the good kind of surface rust. Has a lot of character - 289, 4sp on the floor t10. Could be sold or traded. If we do get the grant, depending on the amount, could be put towards purchase. I`m not looking to go 200mph, the goal is the restoration and putting it on the salt. We are only an hour away from El Mirage so getting the car dialed would be easier. A 100-150mph car would be realistic. Our shop is outfitted very well with fabrication capabilities. Anyone in the area is more than welcome to come by. Heck, bring your car down and show it off. I like to get guest speakers to come in. We`ve had some really good ones visit us. Mark Engle (Jacks son) came in and gave us an awesome history lesson including stories of Jack at El Mirage. Brought in his original time plaque from the 40`s.
History is a big part of this also - having the kids research the car, hopefully find or get the original owner involved and finding any info possible on the car. My program has at risk students, special ed, kids with different types of learning dissabilities, EL (english learners). A lot of diversity. These are the kids who need these programs and tend to do well in a hands on enviroment.
You might want to check out this thread: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,9292.0.html
Michael Werner up in Washington (state) is a high school teacher, and one of his classes is building/has already built a car for the Shell Ecomarathon - and the car ran last year at World of Speed. It's a build from the ground up - not necessarily perzackly what you're seeking, but he might have information that'll make your journey a bit easier.
FWIW I'm a SCTA tech inspector and I live in San Juan Capistrano. I'd be more than happy to make an appearance (should I be invited) plus I'm not an old fart like most these guys (no offense but true) so it might be worth while to have someone who's a little closer to their age be involved. Plus I'm close by and I can give hands-on assistance/guidance with any kind of tech stuff.
Whew Nathan, A hair parting (for those that still have some) shot! I thought I was one of the young ones......... guess that was ~35 years ago....Carry on....... kiddo.... :-P
It's all in fun. I'm just glad you guys have a sense of humor. :-D
BLASPHEMY ALERT!!! :evil:
Common Rail Diesel Streamliner (small displacement). Make your own fuel. Program your engine with a computer. Do some aero testing in a cheapo self-made wind tunnel. 3D model it.
21st Century - just like real life. The records are low enough to keep costs down.
Then in a couple years, make it a hybrid. Then an electric. Then compressed gas recovery.
Hate to say it, but 18436572 is just another random number in today's automotive world. Points are used for grading, not saturating a single coil ignition.
A 32 Ford is cool, but isn't what the next generation needs to know about hotrodding.
Thanks Nathan, I`ll take you up on that offer. We need to start somewhere and having a tech guy is a great start. I`ll PM you and we can work out the details. Maybe in a couple weeks? Whatever is best for you. BTW,
I am an old fart!!
You could also take a salvage wreck and turn it into a 130 or 150 mph club car.
This would give them the opportunity to do all the common repairs / restoration tasks without spending an arm and a leg on speed parts.
A good opportunity to do the tuning and such with an essentially streetable car.
Run the car as a 130 club car the first year, run it as a 150 club car the second year, then go into the production classes on year 3.
Even something as small as a honda 600 like "Evil Tweety" could be a hoot for the kids to build. It took years for Evil Tweety to break 100 mph, give the kids a goal try to build a car that will give Evil tweety a run for its money, and never go over 110 mph.
You should have heard the cheers from all assembled when Evil Tweety finally cracked 100 mph. The LSR community have just as much respect for a builder that squeezes the last ounce of performance out of less than a liter of displacement as we do the 400 mph cars. Show them this years Hot Rod Magazine and their efforts to make something out of a bit of bad luck with a can do attitude.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2L-WNxGIas
Larry
Kinda kool to be waiting in the push truck for your racer to get there.
Is there a rule that you can't push past the one?
When Pam was driving the WGB truck the rule was that the truck could not pass her while she was on course.
DW
You might want to talk to the guys over at the Redondo Beach PD, since they are not far from you and they run a Bonneville car.
http://www.rbpdinpursuit.com/category/magazine-articles/
Larry
How about PUTT-PUTT KENNEDY in the Alfa. :roll:
Quote from: dw230 on April 12, 2012, 08:26:11 AM
When Pam was driving the WGB truck the rule was that the truck could not pass her while she was on course.
DW
Found a 1959 Rambler American - What do you think? Would still like to find an older car that`s been on the salt already but this is a pretty interesting car and the price is right.
I wish, $1500
Nathan, sent you a PM
If you build something from scratch you know it will comply.
It would be a bit disheartening to pour a heap of work and then be knocked back on a roll cage wall thickness test or similar.
Just a thought.
jon
Sounds like Nathan will be a local consultant. That will work.
DW
Yeah, I wil use and abuse Nathan if he let`s me! I do have to work in the parameters of the grant and yes I can build a car from scratch but it would need to be an older car. Getting a car that has a history would be ideal, research and historical significance will help us secure the grant. I hope Nathan can help us with that. We built a class 11 offroad racecar a few years ago and it was quite an undertaking for a group of kids that had never even welded. let alone fab a whole car. This is going to a great project, I just need to find a car! Money is always an issue, that roadster looks great but 15k, while well worth it, is not realistic for us at this point. The 11 car was built by the book, using the kids to check all the specs and then going over them myself.
I just had a thought! Ask Nathan if you could use the family roadster. An old salt car w/history. Nathan's family are currently using Roy Creel's lakester and are building a new streamliner. I bet his Mom would like to get the car out of the living room.
You could bring it up to current specs, use a lower HP engine and have a real salt car.
DW
Nates a good guy, you are in good hands.
Another option you might consider if you cannot swing a deal for a running car with history, would be to do a restoration project on a car that has been retired, or build a true replica of a historic car that no longer exists. There have been several re-creation projects like that such as the City of Salt Lake.
Larry
Quote from: hotrod on April 13, 2012, 11:35:32 AM
Another option you might consider if you cannot swing a deal for a running car with history, would be to do a restoration project on a car that has been retired, or build a true replica of an historic car that no longer exists.
I think there might be some potential here to build a new car that's been highly influenced by a car with some historical significance (with the necessary safety/tech upgrades that are required now of course) and possibly get your name in the rule book (aka set a record). :cheers:
Hello Techteacher - -
This is a great project idea. Here is a heads-up on a few political and legal issues.
As a retired H.S. Vocational Center Principal, I saw these issues first hand. First of all get the approval from your local School Board. If they are behind you, that is a green light for full speed and enjoyment. Emphasize the purpose of the project and the things the students will learn from no other project like this.
second, decide how the legal responsibility of the car will be handled. Who will own it and who will drive it? Even transporting it to the races you have liability. Plus if someone gets hurt, is the School Board going to be sue, they sure will. protect youself and the students up from by ironing out these topics and issues before you start the project.
Best of Luck.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Man, you`re preaching to the choir! I`m fully aware of liability. You think Oregon is bad - try CA. Do I have stories. I`ve learned over time you can`t do crap w/o getting permission from everyone in the district. I think the Pope may be getting invoved soon. I`m an ROP teacher so I`ve been in industry for 30 + years. Need something done - do whatever it takes. Schools - HAH. Gets frustrating after a while. Now that education is at the bottom of the list and accountability is everything I have to jump through so many hoops it`s ridiculous, not to mention the audits. We should talk some time, I could go on forever!
Thought I`d update everyone on the progress of the car. I`ve been in contact with the foundation director a few times and have sent them a proposal on our idea of the rmr car. Sent a copy of the DVD "Bonneville-Wide Open" to give them an idea of what LSR is all about. Bob is going to present our proposal May 3rd and 4th during their quarterly meeting. If it looks good then we have to apply for the grant. Nathan has been helping me a lot with the details and Steve Gibson from K&N has offered his assistance. I sure hope this goes, the students are all jacked up on this idea. Keep your fingers crossed! We took our project Maverick to the All Ford Show this weekend and had a ball. Keeping these programs alive is so important to the future of the automotive industry which translates to racing as well. Thanks for all of your support.
Tim
It would seem to me that you would probably want to reap the rewards of your build input within a fairly short time. Other wise you would have a different batch of kids by the time you were ready to run the thing. Disappointing for the first bunch to say the least.
It may be possable to come up with a loaner car that is kind of up to speed-ish to be able to get closer to a pay day or look at something that will fit the 130-150 club.
This would be an intro for donors or loaners to step up!!
ps
A 59 Rambler American would have to have a $1500 engine in it to be worth $1500. :roll:
Sid.
I can appreciate your comment about this years graduating class. I have told them that not only are they welcome as mentors to the new students but I really need them as well to help with the build. I have some exceptional students this year and will need their help.
Well, we`re stilll waitng to hear from the foundation. This could be a good sign - I hope. The last time I talked to them was to answer the question "how much money do you need". I think we`ve got everything else worked out and have talked to the owners of the car we intend to use. Nathan has been a huge help, couldn`t be doing this without his input. I think he`s just as excited about the project as we are! As soon as I know something, good or bad, I`ll post it.
Are you planning on attending El Mirage next weekend with some of your students? If so, feel free to stop by the car #701 pits. We will be happy to show you our car. :cheers:
We may take you up on that invitation. I`m letting everyone know about the 19th/20th. May have some students and parents come out. Nathan is speaking to my class on the 18th then heading out there so hopefully everyone will be pumped up to check this out. See you there!
I have an upate from the Collectors Foundation grant project. After much consideration and discussion with them and research on their end it looks like we won`t be able to build a car that would be allowed to run in a racing environment. The "L" word as I like to call it rears it`s ugly head once again - liability. They don`t feel that putting themselves in a situation where something potentially could happen that would put not only the Foundation but the students, my employers, the school district any other party involved at risk. Read lawsuit. I can see where they`re coming from, if they not on board my people sure as hell won`t be either. I have been know to push the envelope with ideas for projects that 10 years ago would be fine but now don`t get a second look. Such is life these days. But all is not lost - I have been in touch with the owner of the car and we still may be able to build the car back to it`s original state ( not to race ) so it would give the students the opportunity to restore a car and then return it back to them. Where there`s a will there`s a way! I`ll keep you posted-
I have been following this thread with some interest. I know that 40 odd years ago, there was a school or two where a few of the industrial education teachers were into this sort of thing (sadly, though, NOT at the school I attended).
Maybe you can find someone with a car who will "conditionally donate" and, when it is built, it can be sold "for scrap" to a "third" party - and even the running gear sold "as scrap" to an "independant fourth party". Make sure that the "sale contracts" read that the car and other components are intended to be separated for scrap and salvage and that no representations as to anything other than it is sold "as is" and absolutely NO REPRESENTATIONS OR INFERENCES are made or claimed as any usability for any other purpose than scrap.....
THEN - If the purchaser rebuilds the salvage vehicle into ANY kind of a motorized vehicle, whether for daily transportation or ANY OTHER PURPOSE WHATSOEVER, he does so at his own risk and is solely responsible for ANY potential liability in doing so.
If getting real cash value back is an issue claim that the car was made of pure copper, which at $4.00+/- a pound would bring back thousands....
And, if your students are amenable, have then volunteer - outside of school - to be a pit crew at an El Mirage meet or two - or Bonneville.
The unfortunate trouble is that in this day and age of liability and the "it's everyone else's fault but my own" mentality, feature this -
If the school district owned a works vehicle (say - A Chevy S10) that was sold as a running vehicle to someone who decided to build it into a race vehicle and was subsequently injured or killed, the way lawsuits have seemed to have gone in the last few years, the school district could still be named as a defendant in a lawsuit as some lawyer somewhere WOULD TAKE A CASE LIKE THAT ON!... AND THERE WOULD BE SOME JUDGE WHO WOULD ALLOW IT TO PROCEED!
Sad to hear that you may not be able to make this happen....
Some good things have happened since my last post - most importantly I finally found out who owned and raced the red 353 car. Talked to Greg Sharp at the NHRA Museum and he happened to have a program from the 1959 National at Detroit Raceway. Cars name was Little VIP,`27 roaster, same number and owned by Al Morris Jr. from Sacramento. There`s a lot about this story but basically Don Canepa and Al both graduated San Jose State a year apart, both w/industrial Ed. degrees. He also taught auto shop, did some aerospace stuff, opened a shop in `64 - M&M Speed Engineering, built engines for Gary Ormsby and Bill Harah`s Miss Tahoe allison powered hydroplane. We still may getting a chance to restore 353 to it`s original state for the Canepas`. Good stuff
Quote from: techteacher on May 21, 2012, 01:29:46 PM
Some good things have happened since my last post - most importantly I finally found out who owned and raced the red 353 car. Talked to Greg Sharp at the NHRA Museum and he happened to have a program from the 1959 National at Detroit Raceway. Cars name was Little VIP,`27 roaster, same number and owned by Al Morris Jr. from Sacramento. There`s a lot about this story but basically Don Canepa and Al both graduated San Jose State a year apart, both w/industrial Ed. degrees. He also taught auto shop, did some aerospace stuff, opened a shop in `64 - M&M Speed Engineering, built engines for Gary Ormsby and Bill Harah`s Miss Tahoe allison powered hydroplane. We still may getting a chance to restore 353 to it`s original state for the Canepas`. Good stuff
Thats cool news!
I left Wisconsin for California.....and then I returned to Wisconsin where we can still get things done and our public schools are rated #1 in the USA.......maybe this is why!
http://www.mottomoto.com/blog.php/2011/03/build-milwaukee-program/
Mabe it will help you too.......
I agree 100%. Any other state would let this fly. That is one cool idea. I`m a MX guy from way back. Believe it or not in So Cal during the 70`s we had High School motocross teams! A couple of schools even had tracks on their property. We had some great riders come from there - Marty Smith, Bruce McDougal, etc etc. I would love to do a bike class and restoring/racing CB160`s would be a kick in the ass! Hell, my next door neighbor is the associate editor/test rider for Cycle World Magazine. They would be all over that. My kids and parents would have no problem with our original idea - unfortunately that`s where it stops. Look up where Ca. rates in US schools. It`s sad.
BTW, if anyone has any info on Al Morris Jr. please PM me.
"Believe it or not in So Cal during the 70`s we had High School motocross teams"
When I was in Jr High, we had a rifle team!
If we timed it right, I could stay over an extra day after an El Mirage race and be a guest speaker in your autoshop class and bring my 200+mph motorcycle in to let the kids look at. I volunteer at 3 Sacramento area schools doing this sort of thing, talking to kids, trying to get them interested in Science. I'm a former record holder at Bonneville, an Engineer by trade, and a lifelong gearhead. Email me at shane.san.miguel@intel.com if you want to talk more. We could also emphasize the technology aspect of LSR by doing a video conference or something. I'm sure your students would know how to set that up over skype or Webex. I also have some presentation materials about what Bonneville and LSR is about that I have presented to local students. Aside from my Dad teaching me how to wrench, I probably owe the most to my Autoshop teacher, Mr. Gazo for keeping me interested in something positive during my teen years. I'm lucky enough to work with a guy that was in autoshop with me and not a week goes by that we don't bring up our days in Autoshop.
I'm also a Ford guy so if you end up building a Ford, I'll donate speed parts if I have things that will help. Send me your email and I will send you some presentations I've done. You could show them in class and I could skype into your school's laptop or even put me on speaker on a cell phone or something.
Kids need this and kudos to you for helping get them involved!
Welcome to the era when the 99.99% of us live in fear of the .01% of the "everyone else"!
As long as we're talking about "when I was in high school" -- yeah, and when I was in high school they were holding pyramid-building competitions. I think they wanted us to learn how so we could keep cages around the dinosaurs.
Still in limbo guys, working out the details on the 353 car but these things take time as you know. Keep your fingers crossed. School is almost out - start summer school the 25th. That gives us time to finalize everything for next year. Again I want to invite anyone who wants to come in during summer school and speak to us about your car or bike, hopefully bringing it in to show us. The kids eat this stuff up. We had Steve Gibson from K&N come in today and speak. He has a Camero that will be running soon at El Mirage. Our door is always open!
Contact me privately about visiting your school and giving a multi-media presentation on land speed racing to the entire school the next time I am in California. I shape the presentation to engage the student body in science, math and engineering disguised as motorsports. The presentation is adaptable from grades 4 through graduate course level at universities and can include video with a teaching plan if desired. I often ask racers who live in the area to join the day with their speed machine to give the day a real hands-on" perspective. There is no fee, this is an outreach I have been doing for the sport and education for more than a decade,but do need to feed us if we stay through lunch and it would be gracious if you can find some coin for the racer's fuel and transport costs.
My next show is scheduled at the University of Utah Fine Arts Museum in Salt Lake as part of the new exhibit "SPEED: The Art of Performance" on August 19th following Speedweek. This show will cater to the general public. the United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, however, has asked me back and that presentation will be highly technical in nature catering to cadets entering the mechanical engineering study path.
Speedy Regards,
Landspeed Louise
An offer that should not be refused.
Thank you Louise,
DW
Quote from: techteacher on June 01, 2012, 05:59:01 PM
Still in limbo guys, working out the details on the 353 car but these things take time as you know. Keep your fingers crossed. School is almost out - start summer school the 25th. That gives us time to finalize everything for next year. Again I want to invite anyone who wants to come in during summer school and speak to us about your car or bike, hopefully bringing it in to show us. The kids eat this stuff up. We had Steve Gibson from K&N come in today and speak. He has a Camero that will be running soon at El Mirage. Our door is always open!
Tim-
Thanks for having me - I had a blast!
Steve
Quote from: Seldom Seen Slim on May 22, 2012, 09:40:59 AM
As long as we're talking about "when I was in high school" -- yeah, and when I was in high school they were holding pyramid-building competitions. I think they wanted us to learn how so we could keep cages around the dinosaurs.
You guys in (what is now) the USA got ALL THE COOL STUFF!!!!.... We had to learn igloos up here!!!!!... and dinosaurs!!!!!.... all we had was sabre-toothed tigers....
Thanks to everyone who has been following this post. It`s been great meeting new people, Nate and Steve - thanks for coming in to speak to my classes. The students really enjoyed it. Louise, you have a PM. Guess what - the 353 car will be making it`s way down to So Cal this summer! The Canepa family has graciously agreed to let us restore #353 to it`s original condition. This is going to be an outstanding project and none of this would have happened if I didn`t have the help of you guy`s. We`re still going for the grant, I`m looking for a `61-`63 Ford unibody or `61-`66 Ford short or longbed truck. The idea is to hopefully get the grant and build a matching color truck to go with the car. Don`t know what else to say - stay tuned.
Please do keep us posted!
More news - got a call from Bebe today and she was contacted by one of Al Morris`s students. Turns out that #353 was built in Al`s autoshop class by him and his students! Some of the guys from his class are taking a trip to see the car. Hopefully we can get more info from them on the build. It just keeps getting better. You have to admit this turning into one heck of a story.
Quote from: techteacher on June 11, 2012, 08:59:27 PM
More news - got a call from Bebe today and she was contacted by one of Al Morris`s students. Turns out that #353 was built in Al`s autoshop class by him and his students! Some of the guys from his class are taking a trip to see the car. Hopefully we can get more info from them on the build. It just keeps getting better. You have to admit this turning into one heck of a story.
Too bad this site doesn't have a "Like" button..... THIS is really nice to hear!
Awesome news, we got the 10k grant from the collectors foundation!!!!! This isn`t for the roadster but the `66 Ford Custom Cab tow vehicle. I`m heading up to Auburn the 23rd to meet Bebe and family check out the roaster and down to Watsonville to see the containers and Don`s shop. Things are moving along quite well. Now if we call pull off 2 resto`s in a year will be a miracle - these are HS students so it`s questionable. Never hurts to try. Hey, we scored 10k, anything can happen. I think Don and Al have their hands in this! Talked to Landspeed Louise and I think we are going to make something happen at school also, life is good. I have a question, do they let karts run for time on the salt? I have a really nice kart for sell with lots of spares including a trailer. The price is right, they don`t have a class in the US, it`s a Vortex Super ROK, although they have classes in Europe. It mounted on a CRG road rebel chassis. Very fast. PM me if interested -
I am not "made of money".... but if a donation of a hundred bucks (US$) would help your cause, let me know how to get it to you....
For me, schooling is a very important endeavour (Canadian spelling)