A while back I was given this Painless Wiring system.
I'm not used to the type switches it has.
Does anyone know if they are any good?
Should I toss the switches and keep the rest?.
Rocker switches as shown, are used in almost all heavy duty trucks in this country. My guess is, they will be fine to use.
MMV
Ron
Provided they are actuating relays, it's quite likely they will be fine.
Having done a rewiring of an MGB, relays make ALL the difference. A switch may be rated at 10 amps, but if all you have to put through the switch is 1/4 amp to a relay, you will decrease heat and increase the switch's ability to service the circuit, plus end up with less loss in the circuit.
A Lucas switch can actually live, provided it's not running close to maximum rating.
I KNOW, hard to believe! :wink:
Used a Painless setup on my buddy's Porsche Bathtub replica. The kits are pretty complete and decent.
I put this Painless harness http://www.painlesswiring.com/webcatalog/lv.php?sl=50001 (http://www.painlesswiring.com/webcatalog/lv.php?sl=50001) into the Merkur when I rewired it. "...designed to be used with our 50201 and 50202 non-fused switch panels..." one of which I'd bet you have, Mike
All relay actuated, Chris.
I've probably done 10 or 12 cars with Painless harnesses. More expensive that the generics, but much better quality.
Mike
http://www.painlesswiring.com/webcatalog/p.php?s=roswp
The one I have is #50303.
I don't know jack about electrical. If you show me where the wire goes to I'll do the neatest job ever but how stuff works I leave to the pros.
If you guys say it's good enough I believe you.
I thought maybe changing out the switches for toggle type but we'll see.
Thanks for the input guys. :cheers:
Mike;
I posted this some time ago:
You can pull quite a bit more current through a switch than it is rated for-- but it won't last long. In fact after a few on/off cycles you may find the contacts welded shut, just like a relay that is being used improperly.
The worst application for switches & relays is having a load that is a lamp or a motor. A lamp has a very high "inrush" current when the switch is turned on because its filament has a low resistance when it is cold and an inductive load such as a motor or large solenoid generates a high voltage spike when the current is turned off. These can eventually destroy the switch contacts.
Switches and relay contacts have a current rating that should not be exceeded. In addition the contacts have AC & DC current ratings which may be different. This depends on the metals in the contacts.
Don't go to Radio Shack for the switches in your race car.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Thanks Neil, I used to use aircraft spec but haven't been shopping in a while.
I'll stick to the right stuff.
Mike, I put a Painlees set up w/ toggle switches in Amy's camaro. I came w/ fuse block with relays not a lick of trouble in 2 1/2 years.
Thank you Frank. :wink:
I think the rocker switch is a better choice. Easy to operate with gloves on. Toggle switches are too easy to clobber in the heat of battle.
If you don't understand electricity, then you look at all of this as on/off.
It's anything but. When you flip the light switch in the house the light bulb is cold and looks like a dead short to the switch. This is called inrush current. A 60 watt bulb that normally draws about 1/2 Amp steady state current, the inrush current is about 7.5A. Have you noticed the difference in size between your dashboard switch and a wall switch?
Motors have a coil of wire that acts like a balloon. You not only have starting current to get it rolling, but all that energy collapses through the coils as the switch is opening.
There is no difference between a switch and a relay electrically. You could put a huge switch in the dashboard, but that rarely works out space-wise. It's easier to put a small switch in the dash that operates a larger relay.
Switch or relay, there are contacts that look like this:
(http://www.phidgets.com/wiki/images/4/4c/Contact_arc.jpg)
The large arc happens when you open the switch under load. A smaller arc happens on closing the switch and again when it bounces. If you have seen pitted contacts on a points and condenser ignition, now you know why.
Why not put a much larger contact in the switch? Contacts oxidize over time and the arc breaks through to make a contact. Wetting current is the term for sizing a set of contacts so that enough current exists to break through the oxide. Too small a current for the contact size can result in not breaking through the oxide and the switch doesn't work.
Dang engineers are required for everything.
Here is a relay and a switch primer:
http://www.phidgets.com/docs/Mechanical_Relay_Primer (http://www.phidgets.com/docs/Mechanical_Relay_Primer)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch)
Thanks Dean. There's some nice simple, sensible information there and simple is always better! :-D :-D :-D
Pete
Thanks Dean. :cheers:
Ransom........Ransom, anyone?
We use all toggle switches with safety covers. As Dean stated rockers are easy to bump and cause problems.
I'll respectfully disagree with you, Dean. One good thing about a toggle switch is that it is very easy to see which position they are in-- rockers need a closer look. Those switch guards on toggle switches are great for an "emergency off"-- just bat the spring-loaded coved down with your gloved hand.
Everybody has their own opinion on this-- they both work.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
For when you need to activate a switch in an emergency, don't forget the switch with zero activation time.
Its called the pucker factor switch and inserts you-know-where.
We use toggle switches to relays. I mounted them sideways with safety covers so all the bouncing around at El Mirage & sometimes even Bonneville will not allow the safety cover to bounce & shut off the switch. The driver can also just take his gloved hand off the steering wheel & shut everything off at one time. Works for us........ so far.
Mike, I like that. Running fuel, I have to wear SFI-20 gloves which are about like having boxing gloves on when it comes to dexterity.
And for any newbies who think the Salt is always smooth, wait till you miss the turnout at about 100+ mph. You will easily know which fillings are loose......
Quote from: Bob Drury on February 06, 2014, 02:39:43 PM
Mike, I like that. Running fuel, I have to wear SFI-20 gloves which are about like having boxing gloves on when it comes to dexterity.
And for any newbies who think the Salt is always smooth, wait till you miss the turnout at about 100+ mph. You will easily know which fillings are loose......
x2 here.
if you hit the crunchies in our car at anything above walking pace it is impossible to do anything with any accuracy, fortunately you can hit the kill switch with your thumb with both hands on the wheel.......
Here's a very simple video from my friends at Moss Motors regarding the basic wiring and value of relays . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkG22KgciwY
Seriously - I know they work - I can now get by with the stock LUCAS switches in my MGB without fear of letting the smoke out.
I've got 'em on the horns, the lights, fog lights, driving lights, the brake lights, the tail lights, the fuel pump, the power amp for the stereo - everyplace they belong and Morris Garages saw fit to not include.
Thanks Chris, I watched the video. :cheers: