After running Speed Week 2024 we have come to the conclusion that we need a bit more HPs to get Stainless worried about his record. A quick description of our setup: 1000 cc Kawasaki I4 engine, DOHC 4 valve, Kinsler mech injection, 30 deg ignition timing, 15:1 compression, 100% methanol fuel. Best dyno numbers 181 hp at 12400 rpm. We are considering several "chemical" paths to increase power. Nitro and N02.
Has anyone ever ran N02 with methanol? If so let us know your results.
We tried some of VP's M-5, which is methanol with an "oxidizer" additive, which I assume to be nitromethane, and it failed our exhaust O2 sensor. Has anyone ran nitro or NO2 with an O2 sensor?
Any comments regarding our general engine setup that we should change to run either nitro or NO2? I think our compression ratio is a bit high.
Any comments will be appreciated!
Rex
I would call Mike Thermus at Nitrous Supply
Nitrous works very well with methanol. My understanding is that plain bearing cycle engines do not tolerate nitro. Guess who the local pro is for LSR nitrous? Stainless :)
The newer 1000cc engines are making 215hp on gasoline, but I imagine that would be a bigger lift.
Straasbergs run nitrous with alky in there blowen lakester
Tom Skinner ran modified stock cars with GMC 6s on asphalt here in New Jersey . He made his own heads that many GMC 6 salt racers use copies of . He used 10% nitro to run even with the big block Chevy modifieds .
Quote from: Rex Schimmer on August 16, 2024, 09:49:29 AM... Has anyone ever ran N02 with methanol? ...
When I was running unblown injected alcohol in one of the mini-pulling clubs, they began allowing nitrous oxide. I installed a dry nitrous system which selected a smaller bypass pill when the nitrous was activated. It fell on its face. I then learned that nitrous needs to get to 500+ degrees F to break down and release oxygen. I'm guessing that a wet system is required, with gasoline? I didn't pursue it.
Are you running a low enough gear to get to 12400 rpm?
JL222
John,
We are looking at the gearing also, we may need to be a bit lower. Our engine has a very flat hp curve, it reaches 180 hp at around 11400 and then remains pretty much flat to 12400. We are thinking of maybe a cam change that would raise the max hp up to around 12000 and increasing the hp at the same time.
We are also looking at following Bob Steele's lead and going to a smaller back tire which would reduce the tire frontal area and also give us a lower gear ratio.
We are going to the dyno at Chuckle garage soon just to check our engine base line and maybe run a little "pop".
Jack, I think you are right about the methanol running to cold, I think to run NO2 successfully you probably need to run gasoline.
Rex
Rex, you might be looking for 70HP...
I would suggest a wet system, because you need to increase fuel supply when you flow N20 and I think that would be hard with mechanical injection.
The Guys that own the K/BFS record used Methanol, nitro and N20. Yes their record is 223, but back in the late 80's and early 90's they went 260+ one way for several motors... :? SOHC Honda 500-4s. That was back in the 3 runs to set a record days...
Bob,
You are probably right that 70 (at sea level) would be closer. I checked the air density on our last run and it was pretty good at .79. Making more fuel flow with the mech anical injection its pretty straight forward, two main jets and a valve to select which one you want. More research required.
Rex
I'm still learning on mechanical, but when you push the N20 to on.... immediate fuel increase is required. I guess you could add another injector up stream but just injecting N20 and fuel in the intake track of each cylinder is the way to go. Buy a very large N20 solenoid... the little ones can freeze open.... (don't ask me how I know)... keep it all liquid, it's easier to manage the outcome.
Come by the 6 at WoS we'll have a sip and talk about blowing stuff up :cheers:
Bob,
Not making the World of Speed, Damn it!, family get together in Vancouver I have to be at. Maybe at World Finals, if it happens I will probably be there to take a Suzuki 750 to the Hudson Boys.
You are right about using the larger valves, as mechanical injection is very affected by any possible pressure drop across the main jet. I think I would also make the change of fuel flow a second or so before turning on the NO2, just to make sure that the extra fuel is there before the N02.
Thanks,
Rex
We did that with a murphy switch... would not let N20 turn on unless gas pressure was present through the nozzles.
How about a full tear shaped air foil over axle and steering link and back axle also?
World finals with colder air.
JL222
Quote from: jl222 on August 19, 2024, 05:43:34 PM
How about a full tear shaped air foil over axle and steering link and back axle also?
World finals with colder air.
JL222
I saw this car in early August at SW. I think the axles and steering link hardware had these air foils on them.
Hi Rex and Duke,
Some thoughts:
Based on 207 mph with 210 hp it would appear that one would need about 50 more horsepower to get to 222 mph. (222/207)^3 x 210 = 1.23 x 210 = 259 hp. So, 259 ? 210 = 49 hp.
Or, 49 x 375/222 = 82.8 lb of reduced drag at 222mph. Or a combination of those.
How much drag does the front wing produce at 222? Is it really needed?
It is not clear to me if you have any data collection system available on the car, but if so, might instrument the front axle or one of the leading links to see if there is any load reduction at speed. Perhaps delete the wing and put some droop on the nose if needed?
Have not seen pictures of the rear tires as raced, but the ones that have been shown in the garage seem pretty bulky.
There was some skylarking about using smaller rear tire diameter to adjust gearing?but this would raise the vehicle pitch angle, accentuating any lift tendency.
IO,
All good numbers and we are looking at both a HP increase and a reduction in drag. Going to smaller dia drive tires could provide a significant reduction in frontal area. We would have to do some gearing changing but the main thing is that we would need to rase the rear of the car to compensate for the diameter reduction. Woody would line the car to have an approx 2 inch nose down rake over the wheel base which means we would have to do a little more than just screw the spring bases up on the rear shocks, but I think we have a fix for that. The front wing is still not decided upon. We ran several runs in the 204 area and Duke did not really see any difference. Woody says that it may become a requirement if we run over 225. We will have to see.
We are going back to the dyno on Friday just to check our power numbers. Will let you know after we run.
R&D