Landracing Forum

Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 12:37:54 PM

Title: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 12:37:54 PM
this thread is to find out if you can run a car motor in a motorcycle--i say you cant except in UG and UF streamliner class---and here is why---PRODUCTION--there is a 3000 cc limit---MODIFIED--same 3000 cc limit---Special construction 7.g.9 engine: Any single or dual combination of motorcycle engine is permitted---Sidecar---same as special construction---Streamliner 7.h.18 engne:Any single or dual combination of motorcycle engines permitted---the only exception i can find is  7.J.12  CLASS UG AND UF--any recipricating engine which uses the otto cycle may run in streamliner category only
    i think that covers it if im wrong or if i left out anything please let me know --- thanks  willie buchta

Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: McRat on November 01, 2008, 01:08:31 PM
Well, as soon as you put the engine in a motorcycle, it becomes a motorcycle engine right?  :-D

Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 01, 2008, 01:28:41 PM
Well, you could destroke a Boss Hoss -

http://www.bosshoss.com/products.asp

Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 01:46:58 PM
mcrat   wrong    7.j.5--7.j.6--7.j.7--7.j.8--7.j.9--7.j.10--7.j.10.1--7.j.11----shall be comprised of major parts and componets primarily fo use in motorcycle engines.
mm    i think a chevy motor is primarily designed for cars and trucks
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 01, 2008, 02:49:19 PM
Quote from: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 01:46:58 PM
mm    i think a chevy motor is primarily designed for cars and trucks

Willie -

The BH wouldn't classify as a production motorcycle?

As if there weren't enough questions in the GT and production classes, now I'm reading bike rules! :-D

I primarily can't think of anything I haven't seen with a small block Chevy in it. :wink:
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: mkilger on November 01, 2008, 02:59:02 PM
no bike motors in roadsters  :cry:
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: mkilger on November 01, 2008, 03:03:12 PM
Trying to get to 200 postings
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 03:15:06 PM
the engine size maximum in production is 3000cc----------

there is a front engine roadster that runs at el mirage that has a motorcycle engine-------------

                            willie buchta
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 01, 2008, 03:27:35 PM
Quote from: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 03:15:06 PM
the engine size maximum in production is 3000cc----------

Not wanting to belabor the point, and I do question the viability of the BH as an LSR bike, but is destroking not an option, or is the reading of the rule such that the engine must be of a production displacement?  :? 

What I am seeing in the Boss Hoss is a production motorcycle with a pushrod engine and a ton of development work done on the heads, with a shortend stroke, as potentially a hot ticket.

Chris
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 03:52:51 PM
the maximum cc is 3000 thats about 180 cu. in. that would be a very short stroke for a chevy motor  willie buchta
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: McRat on November 01, 2008, 05:10:08 PM
It's kind of a moot point.  Unless you are talking F1/Indy engines, DOHC bike engines (or certain 2 strokes) make more HP/liter than any other engine in their displacement ranges, so putting in a car engine would add weight and drop power.  But it is interesting that they worried enough about it to make a rule concerning it.  Perhaps they were worried about snowmobile engines perhaps. 
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 05:40:23 PM
mcrat  there are 5 motorcycle classes thet allow over 3000 cc and allow 2 engines --so if car engines were allowed you could run 2 blown big block chevies in a sidecar bike   hmmmmmmmmmmm  nah  ill stick to the harley  willie buchta
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: McRat on November 01, 2008, 07:11:33 PM
I'd think you would give up too much frontal area with the big V8's.  Keep the engine size down to a "human" sized cross-section.  Two Turbo Supra engines perhaps (I6)?  That would get you over 2000HP and have a small cross section. 
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 07:44:44 PM
and about 375 mph---see how easy that is and we didnt even spend any money LLLLOOOOLLLLL   willie buchta
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: John Noonan on November 01, 2008, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: willieworld on November 01, 2008, 03:15:06 PM
the engine size maximum in production is 3000cc----------

there is a front engine roadster that runs at el mirage that has a motorcycle engine-------------

                            willie buchta

Yes you are right, and some cars have run faster than some "sidecars" and your point is..?  Better keep one engine running before you choose to implant more than the one you have now..

J
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: dwarner on November 02, 2008, 02:07:04 PM
I wouldn't have belived it until I heard it at the rules meeting yesterday.

In the Unlimted Streamliner and Unlimted Streamliner sidecar classes you can run ANY engine of ANY displacement that uses the Otto cycle, 7.J.12.

My new project is a streamler sidecar with two Poteet and Main Little Hemi's, blown of course.

Still in awe,
DW
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: John Noonan on November 02, 2008, 02:13:22 PM
Quote from: dwarner on November 02, 2008, 02:07:04 PM
I wouldn't have belived it until I heard it at the rules meeting yesterday.

In the Unlimted Streamliner and Unlimted Streamliner sidecar classes you can run ANY engine of ANY displacement that uses the Otto cycle, 7.J.12.

My new project is a streamler sidecar with two Poteet and Main Little Hemi's, blown of course.

Still in awe,
DW

Dan,

Remember I still get to ride it....points chase here we come! !  I heard the minimum was only set at 135 in gas and 142 in fuel.. :cheers: :cheers:

J
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: 1212FBGS on November 02, 2008, 06:35:21 PM
dan its been that way for a long time...yes you can put a car motor in a bike chassis...remember when Vesco put the offy in the lightning bolt?
kent
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: desotoman on November 02, 2008, 06:55:50 PM
Quote from: dwarner on November 02, 2008, 02:07:04 PM
I wouldn't have belived it until I heard it at the rules meeting yesterday.

In the Unlimted Streamliner and Unlimted Streamliner sidecar classes you can run ANY engine of ANY displacement that uses the Otto cycle, 7.J.12.

My new project is a streamler sidecar with two Poteet and Main Little Hemi's, blown of course.

Still in awe,
DW

Dan,

If you are talking about the motor P&M ran this year at the shootout I don't believe it was a hemi. Here is a picture RTR took after the fire. Looks to me more like the wedge motor Mopar uses in Midgets.

Tom G.
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: dwarner on November 02, 2008, 07:19:42 PM
They used two different engines Tom.

Kent, I remeber the Offy config as 4 wheels. Real old now, don't remember much correctly any more.

DW
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: mkilger on November 02, 2008, 07:26:24 PM
so let me get this? I can put a small block in a bike frame and run  C/F/ P/M ?  say 15,0000 cc Bike :roll:
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: dwarner on November 02, 2008, 07:28:28 PM
Mike,

The class is more like U/FS. Unlimted Fuel Streamliner. I would add a sidecar on the torque side to fight the tendency to fall over when you twist the throttle.

DW
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: mkilger on November 02, 2008, 07:31:21 PM
good Dan,  Noonan can still ride it. :wink:
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: willieworld on November 02, 2008, 07:43:55 PM
read my first post     willie buchta
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: RichFox on November 02, 2008, 07:49:57 PM
That Frightliner was a bike at one time in it's history.
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: John Noonan on November 02, 2008, 08:13:29 PM
Gee thanks Mike... :roll:
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: dwarner on November 02, 2008, 08:19:38 PM
Rich remembers his history well. John fell over a couple of times then decided to add more wheels. I guess he lost count because he ended up with six.

DW
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: grumm441 on November 02, 2008, 08:39:57 PM
There are two bikes that race with car motors over here in Australia
This one has a 269 CI supercharged Leyland motor , which was a locally made copy of 215 ci buick v8 cast in aluminium
It's a very odd looking thing Top speed so far 143.626 mph . It makes me think it would have been faster in the car it came out of
There is also a converted sand drag bike with a supercharged mazda rotary engine (not otto cycle?) which i cannot find a picture of except for a thumbnail pic on the dlra site
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y108/dlra2/speedtrials2004-118.jpg)
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: Dean Los Angeles on November 02, 2008, 11:08:54 PM
Whoooo! That Australian thing with the puffer is scary. If it had ten more rear tires it might have enough traction.

Production and Modified Production frame class have a maximum of 3,000 cc.

Special Construction, Streamliner, Sidecar, and Sidecar Streamliner frame classes have no limit. (Unlimited 3001 and above). Why stop at 15,000 cc?

The following shows what you can do when watching a dull movie with a laptop in front of you. :cheers:
To run, you need a Body Code from Appendix A Vehicle Data Codes. A Body code is a frame class and an engine class combination.

Production (P) frame class can run P (425), PP (426), PB (427), PV (488), PPB (489) engine class and are limited to motorcycle engines.

Modified Production (M) (and Modified Production Partially Streamlined) (MPS) frame class (Bonneville only) can run PG (459, 467), VG (475, 471), PBG (457, 465), VBG (473, 469), PF (458, 466), VF (474, 470), PBF (456, 464), VBF (472, 468) engine classes and are limited to motorcycle engines. Those two frame classes can also run F (454, 462), G (455, 463), BF (452, 460), BG (453, 461) engine classes and are comprised of major parts and components designed primarily for use in motorcycle engines.

Special Construction (A) (and Special Construction Partially Streamlined) (APS) frame class can run PG (408, 416), VG (424, 420), PBG (406, 414), VBG (422, 418), PF (407, 415), VF (423, 419), PBF (405, 413), VBF (421, 417) engine classes and are limited to motorcycle engines. Those two frame classes can also run F (403, 411), G (404, 412), BF (401, 409), BG (402, 410) engine classes and are comprised of major parts and components designed primarily for use in motorcycle engines. And omega (but only in partially streamlined!)

Streamliner (S) frame class can run PG (447), VG (451), PBG (445), VBG (449), PF (446), VF (450), PBF (444), VBF (448) engine classes and are limited to motorcycle engines. This frame class can also run F (442), G (443), BF (440), BG (441) engine classes and are comprised of major parts and components designed primarily for use in motorcycle engines. And omega.

Sidecar (SC) frame class can run PG (435), VG (439), PBG (433), VBG (437), PF (434), VF (438), PBF (432), VBF (436) engine classes and are limited to motorcycle engines. This frame class can also run F (430), G (431), BF (428), BG (429) engine classes and are comprised of major parts and components designed primarily for use in motorcycle engines.

Sidecar Streamliner (SCS) frame class can run PG (483), VG (487), PBG (481), VBG (485), PF (482), VF (486), PBF (480), VBF (484) engine classes and are limited to motorcycle engines. This frame class can also run F (478), G (479), BF (476), BG (477) engine classes and are comprised of major parts and components designed primarily for use in motorcycle engines.

Unlimited Gas (UG) engine class and Unlimited Fuel (UF) engine class (type of engine, not cc) run in Streamliner, Sidecar, and Sidecar Streamliner.  Car engines can run here. Good luck with that. There is no vehicle data code.

There is an engine code (216) (where you would normally see cc's) for steam, turbine or electric.
There is also a body code (490) for Omega. Good luck with that one too.

It's all in Appendix A.
Willie? Did I cover it?
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: dwarner on November 03, 2008, 07:57:13 AM
I was going to code my entry as 215/442. I can't do that?

DW
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: 1212FBGS on November 03, 2008, 08:33:08 AM
according to 7.D.4 you can..... you just need one of my bike liners and Morelands motors out of his red bike..... or maybe my liner and Mains ltl hemi..... eithor way I'm pretty sure it will get ya a blue hat Dan... wanna ride?  or would ya rather enter 108/313?
Kent
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: dwarner on November 03, 2008, 10:27:08 AM
108/313, I would have to race you. My way I can just go 300 and be done, put up on ebay and reap the rewards. New buyer can race Rocky.

DW
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: dwarner on November 03, 2008, 10:28:40 AM
Another point. If I build the chassis today I can use 1.250" tubing and be lighter, more cost effective.

DW
Title: Re: is you or is you aint ------------------------------------
Post by: Glen on November 03, 2008, 10:59:35 AM
Seems I remember that Jim Fueling took a wheel off his 4 wheel liner and ran it as a motorcycle liner and I think a FIM record. :-D