I WAS JUST GOING TO THROW THIS OUT THERE FOR EVERYONES OPINOIN. AS MOST OF YOU KNOW, AN EL CAMINO OR RANCHERO MUST RUN COUPE/SEDAN CLASSES BECAUSE OF THE BASE VEHICLE THEY ARE MADE FROM. WHAT DOES EVERYONE THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE MID/MINI TRUCKS? FOR EXAMPLE, THE DODGE RAMPAGE, VW RABBIT PICKUP, THE SUBARU BRAT AND THE SUBARU BAJA. ALL BASED ON A PRODUCTION COUPE/SEDAN AS ARE THE EL CAMINO AND RANCHERO(WITCH IS WHY THEY MUST RUN COUPE/SEDAN). WHEN AND IF ONE OF THESE VEHICLES SHOW UP WHERE SHOULD IT GO: COUPE/SEDAN OR MID/MINI TRUCK. FEEL FREE TO EXPLAIN YOUR OPINION
They are still trying to figure out roadsters and you want to throw in trucks now. This should start a new war lol.
FEEL FREE TO EXPLAIN YOUR OPINION
Release the CAP LOCK.
FREUD
In real life you have to submit such a question to the SCTA on their website "clarification" form.
Now, in my opinion, all those you listed sure sound like mini-midi trucks.
As far as the El Camino's go, mine was huge, had the aerodynamics of a barn, and it had commercial plates on it (1968). I put my motorcycle in it. As soon as I see somebody stuff a 500 Yamaha inside a Civic, I'll start calling them coupes.
good Dr. --- Maybe he thinks us old guys need larger print :evil:
And to really complicate things, my Suburban`s title says it`s a station wagon. So is it a car or truck??? :?
Suburbans are Boats.
You're welcome! :cheers:
Quote from: SPARKY on October 31, 2009, 08:34:06 PM
good Dr. --- Maybe he thinks us old guys need larger print :evil:
Bill, ya don't need caps for that :roll:
Quote from: McRat on October 31, 2009, 08:16:06 PM
In real life you have to submit such a question to the SCTA on their website "clarification" form.
Now, in my opinion, all those you listed sure sound like mini-midi trucks.
As far as the El Camino's go, mine was huge, had the aerodynamics of a barn, and it had commercial plates on it (1968). I put my motorcycle in it. As soon as I see somebody stuff a 500 Yamaha inside a Civic, I'll start calling them coupes.
He's not asking the SCTA, he's asking us for our opinions and for those that do not know there has been a new rule initiated that would allow smaller car-based "trucks" like the ones he listed to run in the mid-mini truck class. Well, IMO, this does not follow the precedence the SCTA has already established by not letting full sized car-based "trucks" (El Camino, Ranchero, etc.) run as trucks. They have to run in the coupe/sedan classes and have had to for decades.
The full sized car-based trucks are significantly smaller in profile than a full sized truck of the same circa and I can confidently say that the mid-mini sized car-based trucks are also significantly smaller than normal mid-mini trucks. Does it make sense to anyone else that smaller mid/mini type car-based trucks be allowed to compete as trucks when full sized car-based trucks can't?
VW already run as Mini-trucks. They do not have the great advantage over other mini trucks that a '59 El Camino has over a '59 Chevy half ton. I believe the SCTA has done the right and logical thing which has been the standard for some years. There is no reason to question it now.
Why not a new class? Mid/mini pickup, full-size pickup.
What is wrong with the classes as they are now. Unless you have a Ranchero or El Camino and want a class all for you?
Quote from: NathanStewart on October 31, 2009, 10:40:40 PM
Quote from: McRat on October 31, 2009, 08:16:06 PM
In real life you have to submit such a question to the SCTA on their website "clarification" form.
Now, in my opinion, all those you listed sure sound like mini-midi trucks.
As far as the El Camino's go, mine was huge, had the aerodynamics of a barn, and it had commercial plates on it (1968). I put my motorcycle in it. As soon as I see somebody stuff a 500 Yamaha inside a Civic, I'll start calling them coupes.
He's not asking the SCTA, he's asking us for our opinions and for those that do not know there has been a new rule initiated that would allow smaller car-based "trucks" like the ones he listed to run in the mid-mini truck class. Well, IMO, this does not follow the precedence the SCTA has already established by not letting full sized car-based "trucks" (El Camino, Ranchero, etc.) run as trucks. They have to run in the coupe/sedan classes and have had to for decades.
The full sized car-based trucks are significantly smaller in profile than a full sized truck of the same circa and I can confidently say that the mid-mini sized car-based trucks are also significantly smaller than normal mid-mini trucks. Does it make sense to anyone else that smaller mid/mini type car-based trucks be allowed to compete as trucks when full sized car-based trucks can't?
I was thinking that there is no area on the entry form for opinions, but be that as it may:
Opinion: From what I've seen in racing so far, a "truck" is whatever can get a timeslip in a truck class. It has nothing to do with whether it's a truck or not. A truck is something you use for work/pleasure to haul or tow things. They often have commercial registration. They have a tow hitch usually, and a bed that can carry at least 1000lb. And a diesel truck is one that is sold with a diesel drivetrain. :wink:
Currently in non-LSR diesel truck racing there is bit of debate about it. A "Street Pickup Truck" can now have glass body parts, full drag suspension, Lenco (or other non-street) transmission, and no effective cooling system. They aren't street legal, registered, or street driven. In fact, many need to be towed up to the start line. Putting a pickup body on a full race chassis is kinda like Pro Wrestling in my eyes. Good for show, but not the real thing.
But let's get real. WHO THE HECK RACES THEIR TOW VEHICLE??!! :-D
It's a sideshow put on by the lunatic fringe. We are 1/2 racer, 1/2 hotrodder, and 1/2 daredevil, and 100% Redneck (hence the exemplary math skills).
What is a truck, and what ain't a truck, is defined by the race organization you compete in. The SCTA provided for truck classes, and for that I'm grateful. I will admit that I am confused by some of the rules, but I do my best to insure I'm compliant. And if I have questions, or if I desire a rule change, I use the proper channels to put forth a request.
I think a very cool race truck would be a '59 Cadillac Coupe De Fleur. These are huge Sedan De Villes with a pickup bed used by funeral homes. Put 60's Flower Power decor on it. Someday ...
And, of course, you can prove that 500 were produced? :mrgreen:
Mike
Quote from: 4-barrel Mike on November 01, 2009, 08:35:56 AM
And, of course, you can prove that 500 were produced? :mrgreen:
Mike
I can use WiteOut with the best of them! :-D
No, I just always thought it would be fun to hotrod one of those for kicks. Big Fins on a Pickup; you'd never have any trouble finding it in a parking lot.
My real project will be a Subaru Brat with a 500ci/1500HP twin-turbo diesel in it running MDT. If I could only figure out how to keep the frame from twisting 360 deg when I hit the go-pedal...
Big Fins (Finns) on a pickup -- you mean like those overweight and muscular guys from Helsinki: Toivo and Heikki and Paavo?
Quote from: Seldom Seen Slim on November 01, 2009, 09:52:38 AM
Big Fins (Finns) on a pickup -- you mean like those overweight and muscular guys from Helsinki: Toivo and Heikki and Paavo?
I wouldn't touch that with a 10' Pole, or two 5' Swedes...
Quote from: Freud on October 31, 2009, 07:53:43 PM
FEEL FREE TO EXPLAIN YOUR OPINION
Release the CAP LOCK.
FREUD
Sorry about the cap lock.
From my question on class, I was neither advocating for or against, meerely raising the option. If it were a real issue full-size vs. Mid/mini, you could put qualifications on a class to either cause controversy or remove it. Either way, you will always have someone poor mouth the decision against them or for someone else as to why the do or don't fit into a class.
Quote from: NathanStewart on October 31, 2009, 10:40:40 PM
...for those that do not know there has been a new rule initiated that would allow smaller car-based "trucks" like the ones he listed to run in the mid-mini truck class.
That's misleading, multiple Rabbit pickups have been competing in mid-mini for almost a decade and have held records at both Bonneville and El Mirage for almost as long. The rule change proposal was just to explicitly state that they are mid-mini class vehicles in the rule book, which is the same as has been allowed by the SCTA for almost a decade.
Quote from: NathanStewart on October 31, 2009, 10:40:40 PM
The full sized car-based trucks are significantly smaller in profile than a full sized truck of the same circa...
You're absolutely correct, thats why Rancheros and El Caminos can't run against full size trucks.
Quote from: NathanStewart on October 31, 2009, 10:40:40 PM
and I can confidently say that the mid-mini sized car-based trucks are also significantly smaller than normal mid-mini trucks.
Sorry, but despite your confidence, you are
very mistaken.
The 1972-79 Datsun pickups frontal area is 26.39 square feet.
http://www.olddatsuns.com/620specs.htm
The 1980-95 VW Rabbit Pickup's frontal area is 26.33 square feet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Mk1
The 1977-78 Toyota SR-5 Pickup's frontal area is 26.43 square feet.
http://www.toyotareference.com/hilux
The 1972-76 Ford Courier pickups frontal area is 26.95 square feet.
http://darkforestcreature.com/Courier/Information.html#Brochures
All have areas of 26.xx square feet and the difference between the Datsun mini truck and the VW mini truck is a mere 0.06 square feet, (8 square inches). The difference between the VW and the Toyota SR-5 is only 12 square inches. The frontal areas of the VW, Datsun and Toyota pickups are easily within one half of one percent of each other and they all have the same basic aerodynamic shape. I don't think anyone can reasonably state that the VW is "significantly smaller than normal mid-mini trucks" as the facts prove this statement to be false.
I consider these trucks to be evenly matched and the Mid-Mini class to be the correct place for these vehicles. Apparently so does the truck committee and so does the rules committee.
Frontal area is only half the story. You're forgetting CD. I'd say a car based truck is a bit more aerodynamic than your standard pickup truck. And if they're already allowed to run as trucks then why change what isn't broken? I'm willing to bet that by wedging the rules to explicitly allow car based trucks to run in mid-mini that you'll start to see things like these show up:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/15ay3d.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2m81ugl.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2wpnio4.jpg)
I'm guessing someone is worried about being borderline acceptable with the rules and by adding a line or two of text they'll be covered.
Quote from: NathanStewart on November 01, 2009, 08:42:42 PM
Frontal area is only half the story. You're forgetting CD. I'd say a car based truck is a bit more aerodynamic than your standard pickup truck.
Why?
Because the car based truck has a smaller engine? nope
Because the car based truck has a smaller payload? nope
Because the car based truck has a shorter wheelbase? nope
Because the car based truck only carries midgets, not full size adults? nope
They both are constrained by the requirement that they carry adults so the minimum height and width are pretty much set. The nose of the vehicle can be anything and is not required to be anything other then the styling desired and all the mini trucks are getting more aerodynamic with every year. The vehicle manufacturers are always trying to make every vehicle as aerodynamic as possible but as long as the height and width are comparable and they all have beds, what are you afraid of? Brand new Toyotas are very aerodynamic at the front end. Same with Nissans, VW's, Chevrolets and more. If they are not then they should run slower and shame on you for picking one as your race vehicle.
And after looking at the pictures, I hope they do show up. They would make a hell of a lot more sense than racing a square box. And remember, the class is Mid-Mini truck. What do you think a mini truck is???
But, to address your pictures,
#1, The gray Chevrolet something or other. That thing is an aerodynamic mess. Bring it on.
#2, The silver Ford. thats pretty nice but as with all trucks, the dead zone behind the cab is a disaster but it is better than most trucks.
#3, The silver VW, nice,
but probably not as nice as the Ford. and probably the best of the bunch.
I think you should define what makes a vehicle a mid-mini truck. The fact that it is car based is not a factor (IMO). the fact that it carries at least two occupants, has a bed of a minimum dimension and a payload of a minimum amount seems to be far more relevant.
And another thing, you know what I see when I look at those pictures?
mini trucks.Maybe you should propose a classic mini truck category to protect the vintage iron.
Quote from: Salt Junkie on November 01, 2009, 09:48:28 PM
Maybe you should propose a classic mini truck category to protect the vintage iron.
You say you want "classic" - You say you want "mini" and - you want small frontal area. Here it is.
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh99/Arto_x04/194820Crosley20Pickup-3.jpg)
Wonder where it would be classed if you put snowmobile running gear under it and used a diesel engine?
But seriously - my take on this is if it is an El Camino or Ranchero - do what the rule book says. If it is one of those trucks already mentioned in the rule book for Mini Pickup - do what the rule book says. If it is anything else, consult your appropriate rules committee . . . . This isn't rocket science folks.
Classic mini pickup? How about a Honda T360/T500??
(http://www.hondasportsregistry.com/images/brochures/t360brochure7_2.jpg)
(http://www.hondasportsregistry.com/images/brochures/t360brochure7_34.jpg)
If I'm reading the spec sheet http://www.hondasportsregistry.com/images/brochures/t360brochure7_9.jpg (http://www.hondasportsregistry.com/images/brochures/t360brochure7_9.jpg) correctly :-o it is
1.295m wide & 1.525m high.
Mike
I think I've brought it up before, but the Chevrolet SSR might have a lower cd than most pickups. Notice I said "might"
The Japanese mini trucks seem like they would be a squeeze to get a cage in them, and probably hard to exit unless you are also similarly sized.
Sorry, I can't resist ...
I think that the truck category needs an additional rule. (This should also apply for the Craftsman Truck Series as well) Any vehicle participating in the truck category MUST carry one large househould appliance and two small househould items as cargo during the competition. Large appliance = Refreidgerator, deep-freeze or a washer/dryer. A chord of wood or full load of construction debris may be substituted for appliances... I mean come on, it is after all a truck right? :-P
IMO the mid-mini truck class is still in its infancy. It's been around maybe ten years now but not too many compete in the class. It seems to me that the class was created to let the other than full sized trucks have a place to run. Well now there is some disparity within the class because it was decided to lump all mid and mini sized trucks together when obviously some of the "trucks" allowed to run in the class have an aerodynamic advantage over other vehicles in the same class. I guess if you're keen on leveraging weakly written rules you could sneak something in that's super aero and own the class if one should choose to take that path. As more and more competitors start to participate in the class it'll only be a matter of time before the class rules are revisited and changed to even the playing field. The Classic Category is my indicator of this.
Oh well Pete, maybe next time. :roll:
Quote from: bbarn on November 02, 2009, 07:23:34 AM
Sorry, I can't resist ...
I think that the truck category needs an additional rule. (This should also apply for the Craftsman Truck Series as well) Any vehicle participating in the truck category MUST carry one large househould appliance and two small househould items as cargo during the competition. Large appliance = Refreidgerator, deep-freeze or a washer/dryer. A chord of wood or full load of construction debris may be substituted for appliances... I mean come on, it is after all a truck right? :-P
I kind of sort of agree. IMO A truck competing in one of the SCTA truck classes should have a body that mounts on top of a full length frame, has a separate bed and cab, and is rear wheel drive.
I have a question... does this now mean that an El Camino can run as a mid sized truck? After all, it is smaller than a full sized truck.
Hmmm... That is a good question. Seems that Elky's and Ranchero's are larger than mini-trucks, so they would not be an advantage. But there is a displacement cap on gasoline mini's, which is lower than many of the stock Elky's & Rancheros.
Quote from: bbarn on November 02, 2009, 07:23:34 AM
Sorry, I can't resist ...
I think that the truck category needs an additional rule. (This should also apply for the Craftsman Truck Series as well) Any vehicle participating in the truck category MUST carry one large househould appliance and two small househould items as cargo during the competition. Large appliance = Refreidgerator, deep-freeze or a washer/dryer. A chord of wood or full load of construction debris may be substituted for appliances... I mean come on, it is after all a truck right? :-P
That would probably be an aero advantage over the open bed... I'm sure most of the truck racers would like to fill their bed.... added traction and aero :-o So which one of the truck guys is submitting that to the scta.....
You can run up to a C motor in a mid-mini plus you can run in the blown class. Sounds potentially fast to me.
Typical Elky is a C, but IIRC, you could have a production unit with a B (396?) maybe even A (454?).
I'm certainly good with hauling heavy stuff, but a refrigerator is a bit girlie for my tastes. Make it dressed out BBC or a 80gal 5hp compressor.
It's funny we actually tow a truck to the start line that has towed racecars many times before, and has pulled a 40,000lb trailer a few times.
Rancheros and El Caminos can run in the same class as Tourinos and Chevelles. No prob. They already have a very nice class to run in. This comes up every year or two. A pure case of not thinking things through IMHO
Hmmm...I could stick a refrigerator IN the `Burb and not mess up it`s near perfect aero. :cheers:
The real questions are: What will you be keeping in the fridge? Do you have room for a BBQ grill as well? What time is lunch seved in your pit?
Quote from: RichFox on November 02, 2009, 09:49:50 AM
Rancheros and El Caminos can run in the same class as Tourinos and Chevelles. No prob. They already have a very nice class to run in. This comes up every year or two. A pure case of not thinking things through IMHO
I'm not good at reading between the lines, but I "think", the debate is about some kind of rule change coming up that would explicitly permit car-chassis pickups to run in mini-truck. And the question seems to be that if a Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Volkswagen, EuroFord, Holden, cartruck is permitted to run in mini, why would only American cartrucks be excluded? If a Subaru cartruck is a mini, it would seem that so is a '64 Ranchero (Falcon?), or a '64 El Camino (ChevyII?). They would fit the description, and they are much larger than import cartrucks are. Yes, the Elky's can run in coupe, but so can the imported cartrucks I suppose.
I could be wildly wrong though, and I have no dog in the hunt. xDT classes already permit minitrucks.
Quote from: bbarn on November 02, 2009, 11:29:51 AM
The real questions are: What will you be keeping in the fridge? Do you have room for a BBQ grill as well? What time is lunch seved in your pit?
One beer=one pork chop, or there's a pork chop in every beer :-D
JL222
Quote from: bbarn on November 02, 2009, 11:29:51 AM
The real questions are: What will you be keeping in the fridge? Do you have room for a BBQ grill as well? What time is lunch seved in your pit?
That will be the qualifier. If Dan Warner can fetch a cold one out of the fridge in the bed of said truck when you enter impound, then it passes the "Truck Test".
(http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/prod_lrg_images/892/207542892.jpg)
Holds one 12 ounce can. Perfect for my little Honda truck. $26.24 :mrgreen:
http://www.buy.com/prod/dream-cheeky-usb-mini-fridge/q/loc/101/207542892.html (http://www.buy.com/prod/dream-cheeky-usb-mini-fridge/q/loc/101/207542892.html)
Mike
Using Dodge as an example, if a Ram is full-sized, and a Rampage is a mini, what is a Dakota?
I've been told by a knowlegeable person that it's considered a mid/mini.
Seems like a huge mis-match on many levels.
In overall size, weight and frontal area, it seems to be much more of a full-size than a mini, especially in the context of this discussion.
?
Wow, we start talking about trucks and everyone's recessive red neck genes start coming out. :-D
There are more pick up's in Utah then cars, and fewer bars then any other state. Utah controls all booze thru there stores except beer. You cannot buy wine or hard booze in any store. Beer is available at all food stores. Doesn't make sense except the high tax's they get. Up until a few months ago all bars required a membership to drink.
Yeah, we have a lot of RED NECKS too :-D
Quote from: NathanStewart on November 02, 2009, 12:42:01 PM
Wow, we start talking about trucks and everyone's recessive red neck genes start coming out. :-D
I think I might have to take offense to the word "recessive"?
Quote from: longshots on November 02, 2009, 12:38:27 PM
Using Dodge as an example, if a Ram is full-sized, and a Rampage is a mini, what is a Dakota?
I've been told by a knowlegeable person that it's considered a mid/mini.
Seems like a huge mis-match on many levels.
In overall size, weight and frontal area, it seems to be much more of a full-size than a mini, especially in the context of this discussion.
?
A Dakota is a mid-sized pickup. It is bigger than mini, and smaller than a full-size:
A Colorado mini= 67" wide, 65" tall, 3400lb. 30sqft
A Dakota mid= 76" wide, 68" tall, 4200lb. 36sqft
A Dodge Ram 1500= 79" wide, 73" tall, 4600lb. 40sqft
GMC Sierra 2500 = 80" wide, 77" tall, 5800lb. 43sqft
Ya know, there're size differences in all the classes. In the premiere classes, such as roadster, there's quite a size difference between a Bantam and a Cadillac. Same for coupes. Some race what they like, and some like what they race.
Stan
here is Wayn Philips' Jeep pickup. It races in Mini-midi. It's pretty big compaired to the Chevy Luv that holds the record. So far I have not heard Wayn complain. He knew that when he got the truck. It is not a body on frame it is a US made unibody mid size truck. It is not a car/truck like a Ranchro or El Camino. So it races in a truck class. A Dodge Rampage or the VWs Rabbit type pickups have been allowed in Mini-Midi pickup. They are front wheel drive. I don't expect to see one with a SBC inot soon. If your building one I would suggest getting your acceptance early and in writing.
Oh no one's complaining. I just thought it was worthy of discussion like the original post question.
Working within the rulebook is one of the best parts of the game and this sport certainly doesn't need another class or class breakdown.
Maybe my recessive genes are no longer willing to recede ....... and I am in the market for a rusty deep freezer.......
Somebody should ask the powers that be if a Flacon ranchro could run in Mini/Midi pickup. The precedent has surly been set with the Rabbit pickups. That is if someone really wants to run a Falcon in Mini/Midi Pickup. Maybe not as satisfying as a discussion but more likely to get an answer that means something.
I went to the Rules Meeting Saturday and the mid-minis were discussed. Mind you that this meeting was only for recommendations and the Board would vote later after the wording was cleaned up. But, as I remember, the issue was to allow the new, smaller European car/trucks to compete in the Mid-Mini classes. It was brought up that Rancheros (I suspect all) and El Caminos were already covered in the Rule Book and would stay that way. And that the new, smaller, more car-like and aero car/trucks (as seen above) would be allowed. That's what was recommended. We'll wait and see if this is even addressed in the book and from what I can tell they're not disallowed and the VW's and Rampages are already competing.
Stan
Last Falconcharo I remember was Gillette's Blue Blade. Pretty cool little truck. I don't think they had pickup classes then. I think he got a record.
You could go with the coolest car/truck ever built
Quote from: Stan Back on November 02, 2009, 01:38:28 PM
Ya know, there're size differences in all the classes. In the premiere classes, such as roadster, there's quite a size difference between a Bantam and a Cadillac. Same for coupes. Some race what they like, and some like what they race.
Stan
While differences do and always will exist, when these differences become such that someone has a significant advantage over someone else the rules get changed. Case in point: the Classic category. Obviously the roadster class has been driven mostly towards Ford roadsters so does this mean that before long the mid-mini class is only going to be VW pickups because that's the only thing that's competitive? Maybe we can have a pretend truck class and a real truck class. :-D What do I care? I drive a roadster and a lakester!
Seems right now that the fastest pickup truck is the SRT-10 Ram 1500 of the Jesel Brothers. So it gives hope to those with "bigger" trucks. No, you couldn't haul a refrigerator in it (not sure many SRT-10's were ever used as pickups anyhow), but it certainly is a full sized truck.
As a long time fan of the original American mini-trucks (Ranchero's and Elky's) I'll always consider them light-duty pickups.
While before my time, here's what I've been told by those who were around in the 40's and 50's (feel free to correct me):
Typical American families didn't have three cars, or two, the number was most often one. What you drove has always told something about who you are, and back then it was no different. If the family car was a pickup, you were a farmer, a construction worker, or a mechanic. Hence the great popularity of station wagons. If you didn't want everyone to think you were a common laborer, you drove a station wagon, not a pickup. Let's face it, if you showed up at your finacees(?) house to meet her parents, a station wagon means you are probably the boss of the construction site, not the apprentice. Or showing up to bid a job, ditto.
Remember TV ads for that Milton Bradley game "Mystery Date"? The "dud" card was flipped over and it was a good looking young man, BUT he wore overalls and had a shop rag and a wrench. The "winner" card was some guy in a suit, IIRC. Kind of a caste system where if you see grease or dirt you were a loser, and a pickup was a "dirty" automobile.
But there certainly was a need for a pickup that didn't scream "I'M A LOSER!!" to the world. Some of the smaller brands tried at first to just put a nicer cab on their pickup, and Chevy followed with the Cameo, but none were successful. Ford was the first to figure it out correctly, and released the Ranchero. Chevy saw the success, and followed with the El Camino. Both Spanish names? This was no accident, and no, they weren't trying to sell them to Mexicans. It was supposed to give you the image of the rich Spanish ranch owners, who still must oversea his holdings on his silver-studded steed wearing his finest garb. El Zorro crud.
Eventually families would start having two cars, so the pickup could reside hidden in the carport, and slowly the stigma of being a pickup loser dissolved. Both the Ranchero and Elky died from lack of sales, and that era is officially over. It never disappeared completely, hence why many feel the need to dress up their pickups like a Rose Parade float. :roll:
So to pretend an Elky or Ranchero is not a pickup denies us part of our American Automotive Heritage. Be proud my pickup brethern. We are the unwashed who have been redeemed!
:cheers:
Quote from: NathanStewart on November 02, 2009, 09:45:46 PMMaybe we can have a pretend truck class and a real truck class. :-D
We already do, P/MP and DT respective. :-P
Quote from: RichFox on November 02, 2009, 01:57:20 PM
here is Wayn Philips' Jeep pickup. It races in Mini-midi. It's pretty big compaired to the Chevy Luv that holds the record. So far I have not heard Wayn complain. He knew that when he got the truck. It is not a body on frame it is a US made unibody mid size truck. It is not a car/truck like a Ranchro or El Camino. So it races in a truck class. A Dodge Rampage or the VWs Rabbit type pickups have been allowed in Mini-Midi pickup. They are front wheel drive. I don't expect to see one with a SBC inot soon. If your building one I would suggest getting your acceptance early and in writing.
I saw this Jeep truck up close this weekend. I don't really know what makes it "uni-body" but it has what looks like frame rails that run from under the cab to under the bed and the bed is separate from the cab sheet metal as well. So, it fits what my suggested definition of a SCTA-legal for competition truck.
Also, IIRC, until just recently (maybe the past year) all the MK1 VW Rabbit hybrid car-trucks have been running in the Diesel Truck class, not the Mid-Mini Truck class which is obviously a gas class. Different rules for different classes.
Any more thought on this after our last dirty event of the year? I believe the board meeting is next Friday, yes?
That Jeep is a certainly a real pickup. Zero doubt.
DT class is somewhat of a "free for all". From tilt-body trucks running boat engines, to unibody mini's. Most have been gasoline pickups that have been repowered as diesels, kind of an extension of the gas pickups; not really it's own class. Instead of BMMP, they should be BDMMP (Blown Diesel Mid/Mini Pickup).
The problem lies in the first paragraph of DT, which states they are supposed to be diesel pickup bodies, which has been ignored quite a bit. El Caminos (GMC Cabarellos) actually DID come with diesel engines (although it was a disgrace), yet are not diesel pickups. Yet pretty much anything with a bed OTHER than an Elky is legal. It's especially confusing since there is no aero advantage in an Elky over a gas minitruck, which are all legal in that class.
Sidebar, one pickup to watch is that Dakota Cummins UDT truck that was in lane 4. That is potentially the new UDT class champ if they get it sorted.