So I plan on coming out to Bonneville for the World Of Speed event and I am wanting to make it into the 200mph club. I have a 2004 VW R32 which is basically an all wheel drive Golf. My wheels are 8.5" wide but I can run as skinny as 7" wide. Any experts have any tire recommendations for the salt? I have never run out there and after doing a lot of reading I am nervous about what tire to run. Thanks!
200 MPH Club, that's what a lot of us are after.
Yeah I have guys coming from all over the world to tune and prepare this car but the one thing that I can't find an answer to is what tires to run.... :?
Its good to have goals but it might be a little more complicated than that. :-D
Do you understand that in order to gain membership into the Bonneville 200 MPH Club, that you are required to set a record over 200 and there may still be a minimum on top of that, not just make a 200 mph pass? What is the record in your class?
Tell us more about your car.
Do you have a rule book?
Does your car fit into a class? Is it legal for that class?
Do you and your car have the required safety equipment?
You are at the right place and you will receive a lot of support.
Its good to have goals but it might be a little more complicated than that. grin
QuoteDo you understand that in order to gain membership into the Bonneville 200 MPH Club, that you are required to set a record over 200 and there may still be a minimum on top of that, not just make a 200 mph pass? What is the record in your class?
I believe BFCC Engine "E"
or possibly PRO but I am planning on running E-85 and in Production class I don't think you can run E-85.
I do understand that I would need to set a record and that is my ultimate goal but I am not sure that it can be achieved this year. Since it will be my first year I am just looking at making some 200mph passes to try and gain some experience.
QuoteTell us more about your car.
My car is a 2004 VW R32. It has a 3.2L VR6 engine. The car is only 1 of 500 like it. The engine has been fully built with all forged internals. 8:1cr I am running a Precision Turbo PT6865 .81ar
The engine is being tuned to run E-85 on 1600cc injectors and we plan on running around 30-40psi of boost which should put us around 700-800 AWHP. The top speed with the current gearset is around 250mph. It is a 6 speed transmission and the awd system is controlled by a Haldex controller and is about a 50/50 split from front to rear. The car currently has a 6 point roll cage with Nascar Style door bars and I am still running the stock fuel tank.
Here is a picture of the car at a recent car show
(http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt199/smitche74/vwotg%202010/DSC_2758_20.jpg)
and here is a link to the roll cage build.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4883618-My-Turbo-R-Roll-Cage (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4883618-My-Turbo-R-Roll-Cage)
QuoteDo you have a rule book?
I just purchased one last week but it has not arrived yet.
QuoteDoes your car fit into a class? Is it legal for that class?
Do you and your car have the required safety equipment?
I am not sure what class my car fits into. So I am hoping someone can give me direction.
I am also not sure about the safety equipment.
I do have a SFI-5 rated 2 layer suit, gloves, shoes etc..
I also have a hans device. I have a Kill Switch, I do not have a fuel cut off switch.... I don't know if I need one.
I basically have all of the safety equipment and certification to run in the scca.
QuoteYou are at the right place and you will receive a lot of support.
Thanks a lot. I have a lot to learn and I am a bit overwhelmed. I just hope there is a good community of people here that are willing to teach a young buck like me.
xbluewaterx
There isn't a more helpful and understanding group of people in the world than the folks on this site. Good luck with your dream.
Lynda
Thank you! :-D
-Gabe
A couple of basics.
The only classes you can run your VW with AWD in are Production. If the supercharger is non OEM, did the car have the same type as produced?, you cannot use it in Production.
If you want to run the E85 it will have to be in one of the Modified classes such as /BFCC as you mentioned. The AWD will not be allowed there. You can unhook either the front or the rear, your choice.
As you will see when you get your rulebook your SCCA driver's suit, etc. are not adequate for 200 MPH. Your cage may need several modifcations or replacement to meet specs.
Keep asking questions, these guys will give you the straightscoop.
DW
BTW, where are you located Gabe? There may be an event soon that you can attend to get some hands on info.
DW
Quote from: dw230 on May 18, 2010, 11:18:02 AM
A couple of basics.
The only classes you can run your VW with AWD in are Production. If the supercharger is non OEM, did the car have the same type as produced?, you cannot use it in Production.
If you want to run the E85 it will have to be in one of the Modified classes such as /BFCC as you mentioned. The AWD will not be allowed there. You can unhook either the front or the rear, your choice.
As you will see when you get your rulebook your SCCA driver's suit, etc. are not adequate for 200 MPH. Your cage may need several modifcations or replacement to meet specs.
Keep asking questions, these guys will give you the straightscoop.
DW
I am located in Denver, CO.
So this year will I be allowed to run at all to try and reach 200mph with my AWD system? I do not think I would have the time to modify and just have it FWD or would I just have to run in the 150mph club?
I figured I would need a different suit and cage modifications for the 200mph but I wasn't exactly sure.
Can't run production with E85 and can't run other classes with AWD.
Can you calibrate for Gas?
I can calibrate for gas but I really do not want to because of the higher engine temps. So basically with my awd setup and the E-85 all I can technically run is the 150mph club? Or if I disconnect my Rear and just run FWD I can run for my personal goal for this year which would be a pass at 200mph?
As per your question re tires. 200 MPH speeds require racing tires for LSR. Goodyear makes several in 15 inch rim sizes. Mickey Thompson makes them in 18 and 16 inch rim sizes. All of the rim widths are relatively narrow , 5 to 7 inches and the tires cost between $400 to $800 each. Here is the Goodyear site
http://www.racegoodyear.com/tires/dragspecial.html
click on Eagle landspeed.
M/T has no on line info but here are there specs
BONNEVILLE TIRE SPECIFICATIONS
Size 24.5x7.50-16 26.5x9.0-18 30.0x9.0-18
Part No. 033060 033057 033011
Approx Weight 13 Lbs. 16 Lbs 19 Lbs.
Measuring Rim 5.5x16 6.5x18 6.5x18
Rim Width Range 4.0-5.5 6.0-7.0 5.0-7.0
Tread Width * "5.2""" "7.0""" "6.7"""
O.D. (Static) * "24.2""" "26.1""" "29.4"""
Section Width * "7.5""" "9.0""" "9.0"""
Est. Speed Rating 375 + MPH 475 + MPH 590 + MPH
Price $720.00 $740.00 $760.00
*APPROXIMATE INFLATED DIMENSIONS @ 90 PSI
NOTE: ALL TIRES ARE TUBELESS
"ABOVE SPECS PER M/T ENGINEERING: REVISED AS OF JULY 29, 2003"
Well - you're getting a lot thrown at you, so let's see if we can clarify and crystallize a bit.
The 200 MPH club is a SCTA/BNI sanctioned award. In order to qualify, the car will have to be built to the SCTA Rulebook, which I gather you have on order. As has been already explained, you'll need to set a record over 200 MPH, not simply travel that fast. I viewed your cage build, and I'm not taking anything away from the work you've done so far, but I suspect it won't pass tech for SCTA.
The 150 MPH Club is a USFRA sanctioned event, and those who successfully turn an average speed of between 150.000 and 159.999 will be recognized. These are somewhat looser rules, and their rules are posted here -
http://www.saltflats.com/I50_Club_2009.html
To run the 150 club, you're going to have to get it running on gas. Decent quality high octane racing gas is available at the event.
If your cage meets SCCA requirements, it's likely the USFRA will okay it.
WOS is an event that is, for lack of a better term, co-sanctioned. What's nice about that is that there will be a lot of SCTA folks around who would likely be able to steer you straight as far as your plans are concerned.
I'd shoot for the 150 Club this year and spend the winter prepping for the SCTA/BNI event next year. You'll get salt on your car, you'll figure out how to drive on it, and you'll have a clearer picture of what it's going to take to get a hat.
Welcome aboard!
To go Chris (MM) one farther -- at the USFRA meet in September it's not unusual to find Dan Warner doing impound duties -- and he's an SCTA guy that's full of information for you. Tom Evans is usually there to inspect bikes - another SCTA guy, even though of not much use for your car. Many racers run at both meets -- so you'll find lots of people that can give you advice and information that'll do you well when you're heading for one of the SCTA/BNI events.
The USFRA follows SCTA/BNI rules as far as records go -- and have some other stuff, too, like the 150 Club and the 130 Club. But since they follow the rules and use the same rulebook - and records -- a record set at a USFRA meet is just as valid and goes into the same record book -- as one set at Speedweek or World Finals.
We'll be at all three meets this fall -- hope to see you there.
Most of us over the years have aquired tires which will meet the specs needed to reach the speeds we are trying to attain. After reaching 196 and setting a record on GoodYear 28" we needed a larger diameter to attain 200; we had run out of rear gearing. Special 18" wheels were made and tires aquired at well over $1000.00 and a speed of 202 was averaged and 1 hat was the reward. The following year an additional set of wider 18" wheels were made and larger tires purchased at over $1500.00 and an average speed of 210 was reached and 2nd red hat was this reward. Total tire/rim cost for the red hats. . . . . .Who Cares........Red Hats are priceless...(I didn't include the barrel of nitro or all the engine work and parts + 28 years experience) We ended up on Dunlops and have never used either set again so far.
At my 45th High School reunion af good buddy saw my 200 MPH shirt with the speed of 210.9 on it and asked what something like that costs. I asked him how much he had (this guy is definately not hurting) as he balked a little I responed it was not enough. He laughed and I said "It will take all you got."
All of the information so far is "spot on" and correct but they are trying to fit you into a legal class for the car to set a record. That was an assumption based on your first response. However, it is now clear you just want to run for experience first and a record in the future . . . a very wise strategy. :wink:
So . . . you can run your car just as it is for T/O (Time only) and not have to worry about disconecting anything or changing any fuel and you can try for any speed you want. However, if tech determines the car is capable of 200+MPH you will have to meet safety requirements for 200+. In essence, the tires must be LSR rated and the body will need roof rails, parachute, window clamps, etc and fire suit, gloves, etc are upgraded. The rule book clearly spells out safety requirements for 200+. You can go round after round, all week long, have a ball, and learn a lot this year. All the best :-)
PS: I didn't look at your cage but as mentioned, requirements are more stringent for greater speeds. You need your cage inspected. Perhaps El Mirage in June? For 200+ I doubt a 6 point cage would qualify. It may be easier to de-tune (remove turbo?) for slower speeds for this year if you can't enhance your cage in time for Speed Week.
Thank you so much to everyone for all of the useful information. This is a lot to digest but I feel a lot more comfortable knowing that you guys have a ton of knowledge. I have to read through everything again but I have more questions. :-D
Keep posting as you progress with the mods required for Bonneville.
That's a serious VW! :cheers:
Welcome to the sport, you will be addicted soon enough.
Cheers,
Scott
Quote from: saltfever on May 18, 2010, 07:59:50 PM
All of the information so far is "spot on" and correct but they are trying to fit you into a legal class for the car to set a record. That was an assumption based on your first response. However, it is now clear you just want to run for experience first and a record in the future . . . a very wise strategy. :wink:
So . . . you can run your car just as it is for T/O (Time only) and not have to worry about disconecting anything or changing any fuel and you can try for any speed you want. However, if tech determines the car is capable of 200+MPH you will have to meet safety requirements for 200+. In essence, the tires must be LSR rated and the body will need roof rails, parachute, window clamps, etc and fire suit, gloves, etc are upgraded. The rule book clearly spells out safety requirements for 200+. You can go round after round, all week long, have a ball, and learn a lot this year. All the best :-)
PS: I didn't look at your cage but as mentioned, requirements are more stringent for greater speeds. You need your cage inspected. Perhaps El Mirage in June? For 200+ I doubt a 6 point cage would qualify. It may be easier to de-tune (remove turbo?) for slower speeds for this year if you can't enhance your cage in time for Speed Week.
So I am planning on just going out for World Of Speed. in Sept. run by the USFRA. Can I still just run my car as it is for time only? That is really what I think I should do just to get used to the speed. We are building the car to push around 600-700 awhp and with a top speed of around 250mph but I don't plan on going that fast. Maybe only 190mph since I might not be able to change everything tech wise in time to do 200+mph
The USFRA is kind of time only. You sign up for different MPH brackets (130, 150, etc). You can read the rules here.
http://www.saltflats.com/
The main thing is that USFRA safety requirements are less stringent than SCTA. I am not ranking one organization over the other. It is a different culture for USFRA and since the MPH brackets are constrained, safety issues can be focused for that bracket. Each organization has a specific (or different) mission and rules are optimized to make that a safe experience. You might even want to enroll in the 130 club. I think that bracket only requires a driveshaft loop and stock safety equipment. At any rate you will find a bracket that your car will fit into as it is equipped now. However, I'm not sure about E-85 since no alcohol fuels are allowed in USFRA. But E-85 is quite popular and maybe USFRA is considering it for a special class. Check with them for their current thinking. Both organizations provide expert tech support and both are there to encourage and promote your salt experience. You will find nothing but positive support from either organization. The only difference is safety requirements which of course, is time and money. Know the difference and plan according to how it fits your current situation. Welcome and good luck.
One other issue I forgot to mention. Your car is one of 500 produced. That is the minimum for homogulation. That is the minimum production needed for a car to fit into any of the SCTA car classes. That could be a particular focus with Tech as well as other competitors in the future. To avoid any problems make absolutely sure you have irrefutable evidence to prove 500 cars were produced. :-)