Hey everyone. I am looking for some help understanding the rule related to what chassis can be used in the M motorcycle chassis class.
The rule book seems to allow "limited production" motorcycles, less than 500.
Would this bike qualify for M-PG? It wouldn't qualify for P-PP because they haven't built 500, but I think it would be ok for M-PG. True? This bike is street legal and available for sale in Europe.
They have built about 25 of these and have more in the works.
http://www.engmore.com/6-images.php
Thanks for the help.
Jeff
Ya probably better run this one by Tom Evans.
i think what might stop you is the rule that says "the engine shall be from the same manufacture as the frame" the engine is made by S&S cycle the frame is not willie buchta
The engine and the frame must be from the SAME manufacturer. Anything else is in special construction A. If your engine is an S&S and your frame is by someone else your in A. Plain and simple.
Quote from: sheribuchta on May 19, 2010, 08:27:58 PM
i think what might stop you is the rule that says "the engine shall be from the same manufacture as the frame" the engine is made by S&S cycle the frame is not willie buchta
If that's true, then any "manufacturer" who sources engines would be ineligible. It's a production bike, albeit somewhat limited production. Were Buells ineligible before HD bought an interest? If you go to a Wakan dealer and order a replacement engine, you'd probably get a receipt with a Wakan part number on it and an S&S engine.
this bike would fit into M-PG..... Jeff, ever get my crank and pistons made?
Kent
I know I'm simple and not overly bright. But can someone explain to me how "The engine shall be from the same manufacturer as the frame." can be construed that an S&S engine and a "John Doe" frame falls into modified? Maybe too, expain how all the "Harleys" with S&S engines that ran in Modified were dumped into A special construction when the rule change was implemented? Or how my Norton was tossed from Modified into Special Construction despite the fact it has a bone stock Norton frame with a Weslake engine?
its not that hard to figger out.... Your Norton never came with the Westlake motor thus "A"chassis designation... You know the answer to your own question.... Aarons Buell came with a "harley" sportster motor, when he put in the S&S sportster motor that the bike never came with it went into "A".... This chassis comes with a S&S motor and thats what it will have to run with.... Lets say for example if frame manufacturer Spondon (who makes chassis to fit just about any motor) was to make a street legal bike, then whatever motor they put in the street bike will be the motor it will have to run in "M"... Oh wait Spondon is making a new street bike and guess what motor they are putting in it? Yep a Norton motor!!! If John Doe builds a generic street bike it will have to make 500 to run into production
Kent
You guys have hit right on my question. I understand that a S&S engine in a Buell would put me in A. But a S&S engine in a OE bike like Big Dog or something would be M. In theory, I think could run a Bid Dog in P-PP if they built enough of them and you were crazy!
The Wakan is a pretty neat bike and very well finished. I have ridden a couple on the street and they are pretty cool and handle well.
How do I contact Tom directly?
Kent, I have a set of wheels with no shafts or rods set asside for you. The problem is your pistons. From what you told me, off the shelf S&S pistons won't work for you. Email me offline and we can talk about this again. baileyj76@hotmail.com
Jeff
What about ---ATK with a Rotax eng---as far as " I know" please remember, I am not a bike guy they were not available any other way?
http://www.scta-bni.org/Rulebook/rule-question09.html willie buchta
lol thanks
Quote from: SPARKY on May 20, 2010, 07:53:51 AM
What about ---ATK with a Rotax eng---as far as " I know" please remember, I am not a bike guy they were not available any other way?
My point precisely. "they were not availabe any other way". ATK (or Spondon) don't make their own engines so how does buying in engines from an engine maker make that Rotax engine an ATK (or a Spondon)? Back in the 70s if you wanted to win the 125 world GP championship you went to Itay and bought a Morbidelli engine. You then gave it to a guy in Germany who prepped the engine to GP standards. And you went to Bakker Frambou and had Nico Bakker make you frame. Nico, like Spondon, makes frames for just about anything but that still doesn't make him (or any of the others mentioned)in compliance with the rule saying the frame and the engine must be from the same manufacturer.
Of course I knew the answer to my Wesake/Norton question. Nortons didn't make Weslake engines. I think the difference between a bike manufacturer who sells a machine with an engine his company has manufactured and a machine with an engine supplied by someone esle is wha is being questioned here. I mean, what is to stop me from decaring myself a manufacturer and buiding a slinky LSR frame with an S&S engine and running it in modified. What then, is the purpose of special construction?
I tried using the link to send a rule clarification, but it doesn't seem to work when I hit "submit".
Jeff
the modified production class is intended for a production bike that has been modified to meet the modified class the frame and engine shall be from the same manufacturer willie buchta
Sheri
Let me help ya, what part of "they are the manufacturer" are you having a problem with?..... If the bike is advertised as being supplied with that motor then that's what it will have to qualify with... Let me give you another example, the very popular Suzuki SV650 chassis is made at Suzuki but the motor is made in Korea by Hayosung... Suzuki advertises it as a Suzuki and that's how it is sold and classified... Now if you put a S&S motor in the Suzuki chassis then obviously it will have to Run in "A".... Another example the Aprilia RS250 uses a Suzuki's motor, that bike fits the "P", "A" and "M" classes.... It was a shame when we had to draw a line with Aaron's Buell but it all stemmed from when a guy showed up with a Kawi triple stuffed into a Honda chassis... At the time the motorcycle committee chair worked for Honda..... Its kinda like stuffing a Chevy motor into a 32 Ford roadster.... you just shouldn't do that..... As for this motor and chassis combination my vote is it would be legal into "M" due to its limited current production....
Norton, if you can make a street bike and show us advertising for the vehicle. Show that their is a legitimate intent for production.. show projections for production, parts streams, distribution streams, and the like,IE an intent for production, then you should submitt for approval.... Otherwise enter it in "A"
Tom will make the final call....
Kent
kent i get it my point was its easy to modify a stock bike--but if you are going to build a modified without starting with a production bike just make sure you have the frame and engine combination right---
nice talking to you at el mirage willie buchta
I just checked on the rule change/clarification link. I too found it broken. I'll get on a fix right away.
DW
Willie
but it is a production bike.... unfortunately for them that at this moment they haven't made enough units to qualify for our "P/P" class yet (I'm sure they would like to have made and sold 500 units) but it is a current production street bike being imported into the US... I'm sure they would sign up as many motorcycle dealers to sell their bike as they can to make it happen.... pleasure talkin to you at elmo also
Kent
DW, the rules question link still appears to be broken. I will try to Email Tom directly.
Thanks,
Jeff
Thanks,
I'll check to see what the delay for the fix is.
DW
I do have a question. I am planning on using a frame that I bought from a "Parts Bike" it still has all the information on the neck, important for class designation, wheelbase etc. Does a MP frame have to have a title?
No, your frame does not need a "title". You will need a log book and when you go through that process, you will get a decal that goes on your frame, the # on the decal will correspond with your log book. You will enter the frame and engine manufacturer etc including the bike's owner in the log book.
Got it, frame still has the sticker on the neck with the VIN, model and year of production. Honda Frame, Honda Engine, can stretch the wheel base 10% longer than stock. I trust that a factory Honda service manual with the wheel base listed is enough documentation to establish stock wheel base.
Yes, the factory manual will be fine.
What size is your Honda?
Good luck with your project!
500cc