Tubing requirement change for 2-wheel streamliners

[edweldon]

I'd start with Ohio State Engineering school. They are involved and do have a realistic idea regarding what happens on the salt.
With the urgency that the SCTA has placed on this topic a request from them with some engineering school may more likely be heard than the way it is now. ...................
There is a year to work on this and still meet the Rules Committee's time line.
Get a study done.......................FREUD

Freud - Getting some university interested in some scholarly effort with respect to the engineering issues in land speed racing is something I and likely others have thought of before but didn't articulate to a sufficient audience.  Now there is serious impetus and interest in our community.
But I suspect there is a lot more work to be done than can be accomplished in a year by one person or even an undergraduate project group.  This is the stuff of graduate study and multiple phD dissertations or at least peer reviewed engineering society papers.
A while back I was involved in judging undergraduate projects by students at the University of Santa Clara Engineering school for several years.  This problem is far beyond what even the best of those teams and their faculty advisors could accomplish in a year.  Even given Ohio State's experience with LSR projects I doubt they could concentrate their resources to get much done in a one year time frame.  And the math and computer program development involved is probably way above what can be expected from undergraduates.  Not to mention the field work and empirical testing needed to mathematically characterize the other half of the problem, namely the surface conditions of the "race" course.  A pavement based study project would very likely be considered incomplete for application to natural playa environments.
Still, a start is needed somewhere.  And this one is beyond what any of us are able or willing to undertake. ................. Ed

[fredvance]

If I am not mistaken  much of the design, and maybe fabrication,  of Sam Wheeler's streamliner was done by graduate students, I think , at a college in California.

[edweldon]

If I am not mistaken  much of the design, and maybe fabrication,  of Sam Wheeler's streamliner was done by graduate students, I think , at a college in California.

Fredvance--  Super!  If this was done by graduate students as part of their acedemic work they certainly wrote up detailed thesis type reports and perhaps even scholarly papers as part of their degree requirements.  This material should be on file and reasonably available for responsible study.   Who here is in a position to make inquiries and try to get both the reports and perhaps even interviews with the students and faculty advisors involved?  Generally such people welcome distribution of their work and its use in real world projects as well as reference material for future research.  The exception might be where dissemination of information has intellectual property or pending patent considerations.  Doesn't seem to likely in this case.
Ed Weldon

[Plmkrze]

The worse case, the vehicle get airborne and plants either the nose or tail. Are the vehicles being built for this type of deceleration event? Everyone think of a lawn dart.

I believe Ed said it, about it is a Total package, Seat, Hans, belts, padding in the correct places etc, etc etc.

I am new to this . But, please not the Proster. I have read some of that trivel.

Lets not reinvent the wheel here.

LSR vehicles are just that, a vehicle in motion. LOTS of studies have been done, look at the design changes in F1, indy and yes Neckcar!

The dymanics of the deceleration event have not changed.

[Plmkrze]

If I am not mistaken  much of the design, and maybe fabrication,  of Sam Wheeler's streamliner was done by graduate students, I think , at a college in California.

Fredvance--  Super!  If this was done by graduate students as part of their acedemic work they certainly wrote up detailed thesis type reports and perhaps even scholarly papers as part of their degree requirements.  This material should be on file and reasonably available for responsible study.   Who here is in a position to make inquiries and try to get both the reports and perhaps even interviews with the students and faculty advisors involved?  Generally such people welcome distribution of their work and its use in real world projects as well as reference material for future research.  The exception might be where dissemination of information has intellectual property or pending patent considerations.  Doesn't seem to likely in this case.
Ed Weldon

This is it!! Way to go Ed!

[edweldon]

So who knows Sam Wheeler well enough to ask him if he will share the names of the university and their participants in his project?  Even just the University whereby a contact with the Dean of Engineering or whoever would know about this or be able to provide other assistance?
Ed Weldon

[8]

Now that's what was needed, you guys started figureing out how to come up with the necessary information to make them better

[Jon]

And you are yet to contribute something constructive 8..... You seemed to imply that you knew the answer.

One problem is there are exactly the same amount of Streamliner Bike frame designs, weights and bike dimensions as there are Streamliner bikes.
A study on Sam's riders compartment wouldn't really relate that well to Ack Aattack for example.

I'm not sure if Sam's bike frame was designed by the Uni, I think they may have only contributed on the aero.
I'm pretty sure that if it they were involved in the frame and the calculations were available Sam would have had them at the first vote meeting and the emailing we were doing with the Motorcycle Tech committee before the vote.
Either way I'm pretty sure the SCTA Motorcycle Tech committee requested him to put an extra tube in.

On another note:
Ross (triple engine Kawasaki bike liner build) and I were talking last weekend, pour in seats would be nice to incorporate into a build, is the 1" foam rule only related to the back and butt area of a seat or the sides as well.
I understand how the rule came about, not trying to change it.

jon

[Freud]

As I remember Sam dealt with Cal Tech. Maybe just on the aero package.

FREUD

[Nortonist 592]

Now that's what was needed, you guys started figureing out how to come up with the necessary information to make them better

Just what is needed.  Now somebody will come up with a rule proposal that all frames must be built by university engineers.  No exceptions.  Followed shortly by a spec chassis design rule for all cars and bikes.  8,  I don't know who you are and could care less.  LSR is a sport where you can dream you can build something faster than the next guy and (within the SCTA class rules) build it.  Not all of us have unlimited bank accounts to engage a university or engineers and there are some of us who want to build it our way.   So do us all a favor and butt out.

[edweldon]

Just what is needed.  Now somebody will come up with a rule proposal that all frames must be built by university engineers...... and there are some of us who want to build it our way.   So do us all a favor and butt out.

Nortonist - Sorry to read how you feel.  If enough of you motorcycle guys want me also to butt out with my engineering I will.  I have too little life left to waste it on talk that folks don't want to hear.   
BTW I've never advocated nor will I support any mandatory professional involvement in the design or construction of LSR cars beyond OEM origin of certain vehicles or parts for classification purposes.
Ed Weldon

[Nortonist 592]

I'm sorry I feel this way too.  For me LSR is the last bastion of the backyard dreamer/builder.  The NHRA used to be "innovation in action".  Now the classes are spec classes.  Every top fueler and funny car is identical.  No "ideas" allowed.  The last thing I would want to see is for you to butt out.  Or not share your knowledge which I am sure is considerably more than I have.  My Dad used to tell me only a fool refuses to listen.  My concern is that you wind up with a spec frame design with no variations allowed.  I should say that I really shouldn't be posting on this thread for the reason that when it comes to LSR I am a bottom feeder.  But I love to see those amazing machines and wonder at the mind that conceived them.

[55chevr]

N --- You are right  ...  the last thing we need is bracket racing land speed events.

[Freud]

All I was suggesting was guidance from knowledgable people.

Not a dictatorship.

FREUD

[stwheeler]

As I remember Sam dealt with Cal Tech. Maybe just on the aero package.

FREUD

Correct, as far as I know all Cal Tech did was to use Sam's  streamliner as a class project for an aero package and used the wind tunnel.