Composite Chassis

[JackD]

It would seem to be the obvious answer to a question that nobody asked.

[Steady Steve]

Wow my question really has got a good discussion going I guess that was my idea

I will post later with a reply to some of your questions to try and make my objectives clearer but work beckons me like a big grey cloud.

I too am a weight-aholic but still very active and tend to spend all my work time saving grams, only ever get into Kg's/Lbs if something was badly done to start with.

Stephen

[sockjohn]

Dropping a section of a car in no way duplicates a complete vehicle crashing at speed. There are many things that come into play with components flying off, side ways and end over end impacts etc. I'm not trying to shoot you down but in the last 24 years I have been on more crashes at the lakes and Bonneville then I care to think about. I have seen more then one travel over a half mile from the start to the end of the incident. Thats one of the reason we are so picky on our rules. We have an excellent safety record and we learn and make the necessary safety changes from the lessons learned.

Very good point Glen.  Our intent was to do one better than just FEA, and we did learn from the test to modify the car for the better so I think we succeeded.

Anyone who watches enough YouTube videos of high speed crashes on the salt should know you may be impacting the ground more than once.  If you stick with a conventional design steel roll cage, there has been lots of real world crash experience to back it up.

IMHO, I don't know that I would take the risk just to reduce vehicle width by 1 to 2"  All it takes is a few voids in your layup in the wrong spot to make for a bad day. 

John

[Glen]

John
There is no perfect design to and vehicle, just what a lot of people with tons of time doing this stuff. No one ever wants to see a system failure in the event of a crash. Keep up the positive approach and ask a lot of questions. Submit pictures to the tech committee. You will find more help here and in most cases fast. I don't believe you said where you live but sometimes we have racers living in the area that can help. Good luck on the project.
Glen

[1212FBGS]

Hey John,
Ok check this out... I own a composites shop... 24years now. I have the ability, experiences, and resources. I have hired people from Swift and Lola, who have built carbon chassis... I know the laminate schedule that will pass Indy, IRL, and FIM standards. I built structural motorcycle chassis and swing arm way back in the late 80's. I can build ya one. But the bike liner I cashed at 213mph was a tube chassis!!! The bike liner I am building now is a tube chassis.... the flying Kiwi that we are rebuilding now is a tube chassis!!! Would I race anything that didn?t have a tube chassis?...... Probably 'cuz im a frickin stupid racer !!!!
Kent

[sockjohn]

Just so there is no confusion, I'm not the original poster.

Roll cage?  I don't need no stinking roll cage!  If I manage to show up on the salt with a racing vehicle it will be a motorcycle

I was just relaying my expriences.  Most racing is about minor advantages, so who knows if it's worth while.

John

[JackD]

I was just relaying my expriences.  Most racing is about minor advantages, so who knows if it's worth while.

John

I think you would be surprised how many know.

[Freud]

When motorcycle streamliners first appeared they were considered totally impractical. Today they are probably the most efficient projectiles on the salt. ( Rick and Jack.....no offense) Sam flew with low displacement
If you have an idea and are convinced it has merit......stick with it. You may well be correct. But at the same time, be prepared to be held in ridicule, have skin as tough as a cactas plant and if you win, people will soon forget that they made mockery of you. But if you fail, be prepared to see your foto posted inside Seldom Seen Slims vacation rooms on the salt.
Rewards when you are a record holder.........scorn if you don't accomplish.
You need big stones in either situation.
It's costly to attempt to excell and the biggest cost is to oppose tradition.
"Don't try to convince me with scientific data. My mind is already made up and I don't  even need a computer."
FREUD

[sockjohn]

When motorcycle streamliners first appeared they were considered totally impractical. Today they are probably the most efficient projectiles on the salt. ( Rick and Jack.....no offense) Sam flew with low displacement
If you have an idea and are convinced it has merit......stick with it. You may well be correct. But at the same time, be prepared to be held in ridicule, have skin as tough as a cactas plant and if you win, people will soon forget that they made mockery of you. But if you fail, be prepared to see your foto posted inside Seldom Seen Slims vacation rooms on the salt.
Rewards when you are a record holder.........scorn if you don't accomplish.
You need big stones in either situation.
It's costly to attempt to excell and the biggest cost is to oppose tradition.
"Don't try to convince me with scientific data. My mind is already made up and I don't  even need a computer."
FREUD

I would think most of us would have major respect for anyone that manages to get an ambitious project built, much less set a record with it.  Maybe it's a sign my skins too thick, but to heck with anyone who outright ridicules some body's idea.

That said, it's important to keep our eyes on the ball.  I alluded to it before, but based on Jacks comment I just saw didn't make it clear:  Low A isn't the goal, nor even low Cd, the goal is low drag!  Lakesters typically have lower frontal area than stream liners, but far more overall drag.

There is no failure, just next year, right?   

PS: Am I really misspelling Lakesters or is spell check just not know the word?

[Speed Limit 1000]

No person outside landspeed racing knows what a Lakester is so why would the spell checker? Build your dreams and in time maybe you will set a record but it is in the doing that I have found the most satisfaction.

[JackD]

Would anybody be surprised to know that Roosevelt Lackey crashed a composite car liner at 150 or so with a 350 Yamama ?
It came back years later as a lakester with a 500cc na Kawi and set a record at El Mirage.
Then as an under 1000 lb electric it set a record also.
SDRC is full of surprises.
How do you suppose I know that ?

[Seldom Seen Slim]

"Am I really misspelling Lakesters or is spell check just not know the word?"

You've struck on one of my objections to spell checkers in general.  That is, you're at the mercy of the person(s) that wrote the spell-check program.  If they didn't know how to spell the word -- or, as in this case, didn't know that the word existed -- then they're of no help to you.  I understand that some spell-check programs "learn" -- you can tell the program that "Yes, this is a word, and this is how to spell it", and it'll know better from then on.

But for our purposes, be happy that Jonathon has the program installed for us.  If nothing else it makes our copies of the posts we make look oh-so-pretty with all those words highlighted in yellow.

[Speed Limit 1000]

Also, it helps SSS, keep our english strait.

[Stainless1]

Yea, he's a rablerouser..... 
b for SSS

[sockjohn]

Would anybody be surprised to know that Roosevelt Lackey crashed a composite car liner at 150 or so with a 350 Yamama ?
It came back years later as a lakester with a 500cc na Kawi and set a record at El Mirage.
Then as an under 1000 lb electric it set a record also.
SDRC is full of surprises.
How do you suppose I know that ?

Jack,

I'm not sure anything surprises me anymore, but you never know.

Some body needs to sit you down with the beverage of your choice one dayt and write down all the tales that must be hiding in your head and pair them up with photos.  I'm sure everyone that wasn't there would appreciate the knowledge gained.

John