Bonneville Roadster story

[jl222]

Just got word from Miller Welders that they did a story on our roadster,  check it out:  http://www.millerwelds.com/education/articles/story175.html

  Mkilger
  Can you get oversize input shafts for those trans if not you will probably twist it off, you might be better off with an Owens or Lenco.

                  JL222

[mkilger]

 Two of the fastest roadsters in the books run super t10s just going with what works, plus dont real hot rods have 4 speeds? LOL  Thanks   I hope everyone  liked the story there will be more as the car comes together. thanks  Simon Kilger Erikson

[edweldon]

Mike -- Look at Jericho.  Willie Glass had one in his Ardun Roadster when he got his Hat in 2006.  Worked real nice though a bit different feel in the shifting.  Talk to them.
Ed Weldon

[jimmy six]

Ed is correct. I too have a few questions that may need to be answered. It may be just a discription name but one part is currently questionable by the photo; but is shown early in it's construction. Al is by far one of the best fabricators in the business and because of his working with other highly competitive LSR teams will build this roadster correctly I'm sure.

I'm glad there are no predictions mentioned here. Everyone on this site as well as all who have tried know it's not a easy as it looks............JD

[mkilger]

Thanks Jimmy Six , yes Al knows what he's doing I think you are right about the wording  of (step pan)if thats what ED and you are talking about. again thats not a step pan, what it is "A flat panel may be located behind the grille shell and ahead of the vertical projection of the leading edge of the engine block.  The panel must not be lower than the frame at any point plus the thickness of the material used." Is this what you are looking at?? please let me know. Thanks Mike

[edweldon]

Mike -- After reading  the posts I kind of figured the plate behind the crossmember might have been made long intentionally with the idea of trimming it a fraction of an inch in front of the block (per the rule book) after the engine and transmission were installed and their maximum forward position (allowing for any unexpected failure of the engine mounting hardware during a run) were determined.

What I really was concerned with (and don't want to present myself as an authority in) was the apparent conscious decision to go with a "frame on top of the rails design".  This adds about 2 square feet of frontal area less whatever you save by lowering the roll cage deeper in the body.  And given that the driver can be laid back in a channeled design enough that the driver can barely see over cowl (unless he's a pretty big guy) the difference will be the whole 2 square feet.  Seems to me that the majority of the fast roadsters built in recent years are channeled designs amounting to modified roadsters with grille shells and no belly pans.

Another issue is overall height of the car and the resulting higher center of gravity.  The lower the CG the more likely a spin will just be a spin.  But this then gets into the old debate over whether it's better for a roadster with its aerodynamically "dirty" underside to have more underside clearance than less.

Another comment is about the exposed radius rods.  Real traditional, but that kind of front end setup has got to produce more drag than a set of torsion bars and control arms hidden in between the frame rails behind the grille.

I guess your actual objectives and priorities have a lot to do with this.  I got the impression that a traditional roadster design was high on your priority list.  Weigh that against the whether your goal is 300 or "just" a record.

Again, I'm not any more than an educated observer with some years of carefully studying roadster design and a lot of really cool pit crew experience.  I'd love to hear what guys with real experience like JD think about this.

Mike-- I know I'm possibly opening up a wide discussion of roadster handling and aerodynamics at your expense.  If you'd prefer I'll just open the discussion in a new subject heading in the "Technical" section of the forum.

Ed Weldon

[mkilger]

Yes the plate that you see   will need to be trimed some and as far as the hair pins and front axle making more (drag) on the car, I could care less about all that stuff as long as the car looks like it should its ok with me. We will make it up in HP . We also think that if the car is too low the air under the car wants to lift the car too. that why the car sits like it does. The floor board will be on top of the frame, and the step pan at the bottom (you cant put your feet on the step pan) its not a floor board. OR Iam I reading the rules wrong?? Thanks mike

[maguromic]

"If you'd prefer I'll just open the discussion in a new subject heading in the "Technical" section of the forum."

Ed, This would be an interesting discussion on all roadsters.

[edweldon]

Mike --
Looks OK from my interpretation of the roadster rules (FWIW).  Go for it.
I hope I'm there to watch (and hear the "music") when you make your first full throttle pass through the 3 mile.  Tell whomever is taking pics to make sure there's a good microphone with the camera equipment.
Times like that I'm reminded of John Thawley's words describing the Allen Parker lakester... ......."Listen to the howl of that 25 year old engine bounce off the mountains and roll around the bowl of heaven as it drives an equally old car with exiguous suspension and dubious streamlining at close to 300 mph snarling defiance of wind resistance and age."
(John Thawley, "How to go Racing at Bonneville". Steve Smith Autosports, 1980.)
Ed Weldon

[Sumner]

..............when you make your first full throttle pass through the 3 mile.  Tell whomever is taking pics to make sure there's a good microphone with the camera equipment............

......... and make sure there is a camera on board with sound.  We so far have taken our shots with an under $40 Tony Hawk video camera.  Not the greatest, but sure worth the money until we can get something better.  In fact we are up to 5 of them now.  They are pointed both ways, driver, gauges and from the push truck.  Neat memories,

Sum

[RichFox]

My channeled roadster uses the step pan as a floorboard. It's ther only floorboard in the car. I don't see why you can't use your step pan as a floorboard.

[dwarner]

Rich,

I think, and JD can correct me, that a step pan is used in lieu of a floorboard in some classes. Cars using a step pan, 4.EE, should have in addition a secondary floor, 4.Z. Step pan and floor board can be used in together if desired.

A step pan should not be used specificlly as an aero piece.

DW

[RichFox]

Well now I am confused. What would make my floor not a step pan or make it a step pan? Thickness? Intent? My roadster has one thickness of alunimum even with the bottom of the lower most frame tube. There is a crossmember below the driver. it's flat and ends foward of the rear axle as per the step pan rules. I'm sure that plenty of cars are built the same way.

[dwarner]

Rich,

The secondary floor rule, 4.Z, states that "...in the event of step pan or belly pan tear away."

That means to me that a step pan only is counter to the rules. Miler Mike Stewart, JD or Jim Miller can clarify. In the absence of a response from them I suggest: rulebookinfo@scta-bni.org.

I no longer inspect, maybe I should start again.

DW

[Roadster943]

   
    The way I read it and I sure hope I am right as I spent a lot of time this winter building one is that it a step pan and floor board are allowed in gas and fuel roadsters.

     " Step pans are allowed, but belly pans or any other horizontal paneling not fitting the definition of a floorboard are specifically forbidden."

        Wilson and Waters records are not in jepardy from me even with my step pan, but I want my car legal and I believe I am.  2 more weeks, see you all there.  Vince