Proposed rule change question?

[LSR M5]

does it have a propeller on the back ----willie buchta

M5--i do all of my builds on the build diarys that way i can get imput from everyone could save you a lot of time and money in the long run --dont worry about doing something stupid -we have all been there -done that -bought the T shirt

I'm not worried about doing something stupid... if I were, I wouldn't do many of the things I do on a daily basis.

As I said above... I don't have the car yet. Still in the concept stage. Once I've actually got it in my possession, I'll be sharing the build for sure.

[McRat]

I try to avoid doing stupid things by planning in advance:

Always find someone or something else to blame before starting out.

"Cheap Chinese fuel filter was to blame" not the fact I wired the fuel pump backwards...

[dwarner]

Make sure that your basic plan is not illegal. The secret build may be doomed from the start.

DW

[McRat]

Yeah, make SURE it ain't 4x4!!! 



Just teasin'...

Handing out candy and having a goood beer.  Or two. 

[Milwaukee Midget]

Okay, let's try a specific example, because I'm curious, too.

LSR M5, let me carry your water for you, because I suspect we're drinking from the same well.

Would a Honda Del Sol with a 1000 cc CBR engine be legal for I/GT?

True, I have an agenda here, as I'm building an MG for this particular class.  LSR M5 mentioned in an earlier post that he was curious about this type of swap in the GT class.  I entertained the idea of a Del Sol with such a swap myself, but ruled it out under the thought that it would open a worm can for the rules folks.

But now that the can is open, and worms are everywhere . . . 

Seeing as most motorcycle engines fall in between 500 and 1500 C's, I suspect there are some records in the H, I and J production classes that could be taken by a well thought out DOHC motorcycle engine swap into a number of cars that share the same name as the donor engine - but little else.

The letter of the rule might permit the swap - but the intent, or spirit of the rule - that's not particularly clear.

So if I showed up to tech with a 1000 cc, CBR powered production Del Sol that passed safety inspection, which ran and backed up a speed in excess of a class record, would the SCTA recognize the record?

[maguromic]

I don't see any rule prohibiting MC engines in car classes. May not be the spirit of the rule, but that only counts if you are playing with hand grenades and horse shoes. The Noonan roadster is a good example and I know of one other roadster being built with a MC engine.

[1212FBGS]

yep more than a few moto psycho's deficating on hallowed roadster ground.... hey anyone want to return the favor and put a flathead in my bike liner?
kent

[RichFox]

I thought that Johny Hot Nuts MS had a bike engine and I know Dick Spenser ran with a bike engine in a sport car a few years ago. So as far as I know cars have always been able to run bike engines or at least for a long time. Bike guys do not return the favor. That's how they are.

[ol38y]

yep more than a few moto psycho's deficating on hallowed roadster ground.... hey anyone want to return the favor and put a flathead in my bike liner?
kent

.
     

[sheribuchta]

bike guys dont run car motors because it is against the rules and why would we want to run slower LOL --willie buchta

[Dean Los Angeles]

bike guys dont run car motors because it is against the rules

Mostly true. Streamliners can run UG or UF with any engine.

[Stainless1]

OK folks, we are really talking production classes and I don't see the rules guys allowing bike engines in production class.  GT is a production class.  When we use the words "engine swap" there is a definition the could be interpreted to mean as long as you can't get a bike engine in production then that is a legal engine swap.  But I'll bet the current record holder will challenge that as being a legal "engine swap."  Build it for modified sports and I don't see a problem, modified classes seemed to open the door a few years back and the little bike motors moved in.  
Now before you accuse me of some kink of car bias, our special construction car has always had a bike motor.  In 84, we proposed putting a bike motor in our Abarth Zagato, a GT car, to run it in Modified Sports, initially received as innovative until the board discussed it and decided mixing species would not be allowed.  (we always figured we were too far east to be innovative)  
I don't have a problem with it, but I would get legality in writing prior to building a production car with a bike motor.  Or plan to compete in modified.  

[SPARKY]

What about Production Definitions Rule 4.E

[SPARKY]

and 4.N Eng Swap definition

[McRat]

This following post has nothing to do with the rulebook, just an opinion from someone who has raced in multiple organizations.

Any production class in any form of racing should not allow any engine swaps.  Production class is the "grass roots" / "entry level" field.  But more importantly, it turns Production Class into NASCAR class.  Might kinda look like a stock car if you squint and are colorblind, but is just a clever packaging job of a race-only, ground-up build.

And should mfr's or mfr sponsored entries want to participate in production class, you can write off all American car companies from entering.  No American car company makes motorcycles or snowmobiles.

I think only classes that already allow custom-built engines should permit that type of swap.  No production car engines have 13,000+ redlines, and it requires $$$ to alter a stock car engine to permit such operation.

But my opinion is not necessarily a popular one.  With the possible exception of the SCCA, pretty much all "production" race cars in various racing organizations bear little resemblence to a production car other than outward appearance.