ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?

[ERC RACING FUELS]

Thanks for the offer to evaluate the plugs, Rick. I may send them to you since I plan to bring the same bike next year. I did a compression test, and the cylinders have full compression so that is good news. The strange part of this is that the plugs have BROKEN ground straps, not burned.
Don

DON:

Please send them over.  I'd like to see them.  What brand and part number plug are they ??

Rick Gold
ERC Fuels-owner

[mike mendoza]

sorrie rick that was a motorcycle  lol 

[Geo]

No, we don't get a discount -- but I sure think we all get a fair shake.

Stan Back

Best thing you have said all year!   

Geo

[dieselgeek]

DIESEL:

If I was short with you at Bville, please accept my apologies.  I was probably buried with tasks and not "customer service oriented" when we interacted and I should have been.  Again, please accept my apologies.

I stood in the background, it was our crew chief who bore the brunt.  Thank you for offering an explanation here, it's entirely possible that we came across as not being interested in the details.  

I'm surmising that I probably recommended ERC A19A fuel for your application (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this).  A19A works extremely well in very high compression N/A applications; and many, many Bville records have been set on this fuel.  As it compares to C25, you might be interested to know that Reher & Morrison ran A19A vs. C25 back to back in one of Earl Wooden's BBC engines a few years ago.  Power production was virtually identical; an interesting fact considering A19A's much higher Research (F1) and Motor (F2) octane numbers.

The fuel you suggested, and we ran the first 2 passes, was A-8C.  You indicated a concern because the car had hurt engines the two prior years.  FUnny thing is, I think you are right about that, last year.  We had the tune in check this year, however.   Maybe "ridiculous" is a harsh word; but I know now that A-8C is better for the high boost roots-type blower guys, who don't have room for good intercoolers - thus high intake temps.  Our motor was a 12.5:1 N/A 498" v8 running up to about 7500rpm.  Ambient air temp  = our intake temp.

I am not sure the name of the second fuel we ran - it was lower octane, 114?  I am not sure if that was rated "motor method" or "research method" - I didn't have time on this project to master the fuel chemistry as I lacked time to go into that detail.  400 pages of "owners manuals" for engine management, datalogging, etc. killed all my free time!

The information you posted regarding plug reading, is EXACTLY what we needed to know!!  Next time, I realize I should just bring you our plugs after a safe pass.  That information will help me for years to come, thank you!


-Scott

[ERC RACING FUELS]

DIESEL:

If I was short with you at Bville, please accept my apologies.  I was probably buried with tasks and not "customer service oriented" when we interacted and I should have been.  Again, please accept my apologies.

I stood in the background, it was our crew chief who bore the brunt.  Thank you for offering an explanation here, it's entirely possible that we came across as not being interested in the details.  

I'm surmising that I probably recommended ERC A19A fuel for your application (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this).  A19A works extremely well in very high compression N/A applications; and many, many Bville records have been set on this fuel.  As it compares to C25, you might be interested to know that Reher & Morrison ran A19A vs. C25 back to back in one of Earl Wooden's BBC engines a few years ago.  Power production was virtually identical; an interesting fact considering A19A's much higher Research (F1) and Motor (F2) octane numbers.

The fuel you suggested, and we ran the first 2 passes, was A-8C.  You indicated a concern because the car had hurt engines the two prior years.  FUnny thing is, I think you are right about that, last year.  We had the tune in check this year, however.   Maybe "ridiculous" is a harsh word; but I know now that A-8C is better for the high boost roots-type blower guys, who don't have room for good intercoolers - thus high intake temps.  Our motor was a 12.5:1 N/A 498" v8 running up to about 7500rpm.  Ambient air temp  = our intake temp.

I am not sure the name of the second fuel we ran - it was lower octane, 114?  I am not sure if that was rated "motor method" or "research method" - I didn't have time on this project to master the fuel chemistry as I lacked time to go into that detail.  400 pages of "owners manuals" for engine management, datalogging, etc. killed all my free time!

The information you posted regarding plug reading, is EXACTLY what we needed to know!!  Next time, I realize I should just bring you our plugs after a safe pass.  That information will help me for years to come, thank you!


-Scott

SCOTT:

I'm really curious as to why I would recommend our high cylinder pressure, hi density blower, turbo, nitrous gasoline, A8C, for your application ??  I would not do that unless there were some extenuating circumstances (that I can't remember).  Can you refresh my memory as to what justification I offered for recommending A8C ??

Thanks much.

Rick Gold
ERC Fuels-owner

[dieselgeek]

You told us it was because we'd hurt motors the two years prior.  Car #1001.

[ERC RACING FUELS]

You told us it was because we'd hurt motors the two years prior.  Car #1001.

SCOTT:

OK, Thanks for the info.  I just wish I remembered more of the details of our conversation.

Thanks and best regards.

Rick Gold
ERC Fuels-owner

[SALTRACER]

ERC offers more than one choice.  And when it comes to gas classes, the Impound checkers know how to check for their types.

And it levels the playing field as far as gas classes is concerned.  Every Gas record for the last 20+ years has been set with ERC gas.

The prices are fair, the service is good.  Another supplier would slice up the business and make it probably not profitable for both (or more).

No, we don't get a discount -- but I sure think we all get a fair shake.

I'm not talking about different octane# I'm talking about giving different suppliers a chance to let racers run their product. The SCTA could approve at least one more supplier and let the racers chose between the two. I'm also not talking about making it more or less profitable. I'm talking about a choice. ERC was great to us this year they were knowledgeable and friendly. However if a person could run and compare two similar fuels at the same event it would allow a racer to decided if one fuel works better for their application. It would also take away the excuse of " we would have ran good, but the fuel was bad this year" I will continue to run ERC in our car, I  take some home from the salt for tuning every year. 

[dieselgeek]

However if a person could run and compare two similar fuels at the same event it would allow a racer to decided if one fuel works better for their application. It would also take away the excuse of " we would have ran good, but the fuel was bad this year" I will continue to run ERC in our car, I  take some home from the salt for tuning every year. 

My opinion, this is something you should figure out long before showing up on the salt. 


Other than my weird experience this year, dealing with ERC has been great.  They've shipped us fuel for testing, quickly, and no runaound.  I've never had a problem finding an appropriate ERC fuel for any engines I've been tuning, and the only time we've disagreed is when ERC is recommending more conservative fuel - not a bad thing at all.

I don't see this as the SCTA forcing us to use a certain vendor - I see this as the SCTA bringing in a vendor who is willing to work with the racers and actually forumlate SPECIFIC appropriate fuels for the application.  To me, it doesn't get any better.   I hope they don't change a thing.

[ERC RACING FUELS]

You told us it was because we'd hurt motors the two years prior.  Car #1001.

SCOTT:

I have, on rare occasion, recommended A8C for combinations which seem to have troublesome combustion characteristics.  That might have been my rationale in your case.

How did you run this year ??

Rick Gold
ERC Fuels-owner

[dieselgeek]

You told us it was because we'd hurt motors the two years prior.  Car #1001.

SCOTT:

I have, on rare occasion, recommended A8C for combinations which seem to have troublesome combustion characteristics.  That might have been my rationale in your case.

How did you run this year ??

Rick Gold
ERC Fuels-owner

Rick -

We followed your advice on the A8C, and ran a safe tuneup and put +10mph on A/Pro, a 16 year old record...   Then, we tried the lower octane fuel and same tune, picked up 5mph and bumped the record again.  This is Lee Sicilio's Charger Daytona - I think you know him pretty well.  You expressed concern that we didn't hurt anything, and that is because the last two years he was here with the exact same combo - both years, left with rods hanging outside the block.   The problem was his EFI tuning - it wasn't being done properly.  This year we prepared, spent time on the dyno, and had great luck on the salt.

Can't thank you enough for your help. I feel bad for grilling you earlier in this thread, sometimes negativity gets the best of us.  Bottom line, your help gets an A++ from me, and don't change a thing.  This year I'm studying fuel chemistry and will be less of a nuisance to you and your guys in the future.

thanks again,
-Scott Clark

[SALTRACER]

My opinion, this is something you should figure out long before showing up on the salt

If there was more than one supplier then a person could try them on the dyno before arriving. If a person knew in advance who and what was selling at the salt they could figure this out long before they show up on the salt.

[dieselgeek]

My opinion, this is something you should figure out long before showing up on the salt

If there was more than one supplier then a person could try them on the dyno before arriving. If a person knew in advance who and what was selling at the salt they could figure this out long before they show up on the salt.

Have you been reading?  You can get ERC fuels ANYWHERE in this country, easily.  You can buy it plenty of places other than on the salt.  I have known for at least5 years what fuel is offered, it's not like we go to the salt and get surprised by fuel choice.

[Speed Limit 1000]

ERC has always been very helpful and makes great fuels for LSR. That said, you can run any brand of gas that you want on the salt. The only time you have to run event aproved gas is for gas class records. If you want to see if some other gas is faster run it and if you are faster than a fuel record then run it in the fuel class then if you go faster look to find an ERC gas you can use to go back to the gas class. I do not think any other brand would give us the support that Rick has given us over the past 20 years.

[desotoman]

It looks like SALTRACER is no longer with us, now just a guest.

SALTRACER if you see this come on back to the Forum.  It is really a great place to get questions answered.

Tom G.