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The Eyes, Ears and Voice of Land Speed Racing
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#1
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by JAL AKA JL222 - Today at 11:01:28 PMThey are limited to slow the cars.
I have learned and applied muck of what I have learned from other forms of motor sports.
One, is when suspension bottoms out wheel rate goes to infinity tires lose their grip
and car loses control.
JL222
#2
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by bubruins - Today at 10:24:57 PMFalse narrative is not the same thing as false equivalence. I said that the overly simplified, cherry picked numbers for two forms of motorsports were meaningless in the context of land speed racing.
My local mud bog truck class has some general design principles that are different from what I think a good land speed car would be, but I dont go on a forum espousing them as the truth for finding grip on slippery surfaces because they are dangerous to apply out of context.
Why do top fuel and gp car rules limit the size of wings?
My local mud bog truck class has some general design principles that are different from what I think a good land speed car would be, but I dont go on a forum espousing them as the truth for finding grip on slippery surfaces because they are dangerous to apply out of context.
Why do top fuel and gp car rules limit the size of wings?
#3
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by JAL AKA JL222 - Today at 09:59:34 PMQuote from: bubruins on Today at 04:29:35 PMQuote from: JAL AKA JL222 on Today at 02:16:41 PMI would like Tom Burkland and Lee Kennedy to inform us what the cg and cp is on a top fuel dragster and Funny Car.
In the book ''THE 1000 BHP GRANDPRIX CARS'' If 52% of the weight of the car was not on
Jl222
Two false equivalents dont make one true. Worth noting both top fuel and grand prix cars typically burn as much HP towards downforce as the rules permit whereas in landspeed racing the fastest is often nearly no aerodynamic downforce.
Wanting to know the CG and cp of drag cars is false narrative?
52% of weight on rear is a false narrative. Please explain.
Your completely wrong about downforce used in both top fuel and Grant prix
To much down force in top fuel they lose, to much in Grand Prix they lose because of amount of fuel allowed
and tire wear.
I own and have driven ''THE WORLD'S FASTEST CAMARO'' 294 mph in the first timed mile and Troy 287 mph in the 21/4.
Camaro has a 10'' spoiler with a 4'' up plate, max end plates, soft suspension and lot of weight on rear tires with the correct wheel rate.
With out the spoiler and weight it would just spin the tires or go into suspension droop at speeds over 160 mph and spin.
JL222
#4
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by SPARKY - Today at 06:43:14 PMfrom my experience B'vill driving is a lot like learning to fly lisc up runs are like the hours before being allowed of to solo then you still have to get in more hours before passing you lisc, and being allowed to take passengers most pilots don't really start becoming really up to speed until around 100 hours at b vill it is most likely around 50 miles in a more that one car I.. IMO YMMV
PS I consider my self just starting to be to pay attention to the car on a run instead of just stare at floating mountain a stay straight. I have over 50 miles in 5 different lakesters and streamliners over 200 and about 5 or six over 300 being an instrument rated pilot for sure helped because I had and instrument scan built in
Guys it is complicated I said all of this to SAY at first you are more or less along for the ride because of tunnel vision that doesn't go away for a good while and some people never get pass it I consider Lakesters the safest vech overm 200 AGAIN YMMV
PS I consider my self just starting to be to pay attention to the car on a run instead of just stare at floating mountain a stay straight. I have over 50 miles in 5 different lakesters and streamliners over 200 and about 5 or six over 300 being an instrument rated pilot for sure helped because I had and instrument scan built in
Guys it is complicated I said all of this to SAY at first you are more or less along for the ride because of tunnel vision that doesn't go away for a good while and some people never get pass it I consider Lakesters the safest vech overm 200 AGAIN YMMV
#5
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by desotoman - Today at 06:05:46 PM@bubruins, the best advice I can give you is to build your car with the best parts and safety equipment you can find. Since you have a 7 month old son, once your car is done let someone else drive the car who has driven LSR cars and comes recommended by someone you trust. Once the bugs are worked out of the car and it is deemed safe with no idiosyncrasies, then you can take over the driving chores. Have a good life insurance policy as we never know what the next pass will bring, and it might not be our fault at all. Like running over a $25 key chain which blew one of your tires which put you into a barrel roll and killed you, or worse you are brain dead for the rest of you life.
IMO after watching the video several times Matt made a couple of mistakes. One was building the car and not having good access to seeing the salt, but he is not the first one to build a vehicle that way. To me good vision is important at any speed. When he started the run he was overpowering the track in two different gears, Why? He is in a vehicle that has gone 300 mph, what is the rush when you are to run 150-175. Looking at the markers go by gives one a good idea of how fast you are going. And the SCTA is really watching your run. Sometimes you have to call Lee Kennedy as he follows you down the track in his truck to watch you. Also why did he not figure he needed to do XXXX RPM in 3rd gear to go 160? Pretty simple, instead relied on his instruments that malfunctioned.
I am not saying Matt is a bad driver, all I am saying is a little common sense would have helped him on his run.
In one of these runs you have to take the racer attitude out of your mind, and concentrate on doing what you were told to do.
IMO after watching the video several times Matt made a couple of mistakes. One was building the car and not having good access to seeing the salt, but he is not the first one to build a vehicle that way. To me good vision is important at any speed. When he started the run he was overpowering the track in two different gears, Why? He is in a vehicle that has gone 300 mph, what is the rush when you are to run 150-175. Looking at the markers go by gives one a good idea of how fast you are going. And the SCTA is really watching your run. Sometimes you have to call Lee Kennedy as he follows you down the track in his truck to watch you. Also why did he not figure he needed to do XXXX RPM in 3rd gear to go 160? Pretty simple, instead relied on his instruments that malfunctioned.
I am not saying Matt is a bad driver, all I am saying is a little common sense would have helped him on his run.
In one of these runs you have to take the racer attitude out of your mind, and concentrate on doing what you were told to do.
#6
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by gowing - Today at 05:29:34 PMQuote from: bubruins on Today at 05:14:36 PM@Gowing It must be harvest season over here in Tennessee. Feels like I'm having a chat with a straw man to figure out how many logical fallacies it'll take before the next unnecessary wreck at Bonneville.
?
Please clarify
#7
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by bubruins - Today at 05:14:36 PM@Gowing It must be harvest season over here in Tennessee. Feels like I'm having a chat with a straw man to figure out how many logical fallacies it'll take before the next unnecessary wreck at Bonneville.
#8
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by bubruins - Today at 04:39:06 PM@desotoman no I'm totally outside and am frustrated I have limited safety data. I do have a database of incidents, but SCTA holds most od the data in unpublished run logs and any incident reports they may or may not have. When building a car for a fast record I feel I am forced to speculate on a lot of life or death events as they can impact decisions of my build project. I enjoy the design and building process.
To me, land speed racing shouldn't require a talented driver. I think the fact that this thread exists should substantiate this well. SFM rides motorcycles, has done track days on road courses in wild vehicles, and by all accounts Ive seen seems to be a capable driver. He didn't know how fast he was going at Bonneville by 100mph. The point of this whole thread is what consequences arose after one instance of imperfect driving, not what if all racers were as good as the best one. The safety standards cannot be written for only the best driver.
To me, land speed racing shouldn't require a talented driver. I think the fact that this thread exists should substantiate this well. SFM rides motorcycles, has done track days on road courses in wild vehicles, and by all accounts Ive seen seems to be a capable driver. He didn't know how fast he was going at Bonneville by 100mph. The point of this whole thread is what consequences arose after one instance of imperfect driving, not what if all racers were as good as the best one. The safety standards cannot be written for only the best driver.
#9
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by bubruins - Today at 04:29:35 PMQuote from: JAL AKA JL222 on Today at 02:16:41 PMI would like Tom Burkland and Lee Kennedy to inform us what the cg and cp is on a top fuel dragster and Funny Car.
In the book ''THE 1000 BHP GRANDPRIX CARS'' If 52% of the weight of the car was not on the rear wheels it was not competitive.
Jl222
Two false equivalents dont make one true. Worth noting both top fuel and grand prix cars typically burn as much HP towards downforce as the rules permit whereas in landspeed racing the fastest is often nearly no aerodynamic downforce.
#10
Bonneville General Chat / Re: Super Fast Matt's new Yout...
Last post by MRK - Today at 04:09:43 PMQuote from: racergeo on Today at 01:38:23 PMMRK, I don't think "make it a requirement and they will be happy to oblige" is entirely true. I knew people personally that about $hit the bed and rolled in it when the HANS Device became a requirement. And it is something that saves lives. I'm sure Red would be a dead player but for all the safety requirementsOkay but the HANS device is mandatory today and it saves lives. Complaining about a new rule is SOP for racers.
Do we know why Red crashed? Is there a safety system/device that could've kept the car from crashing or at least warned him that there was an issue? Red survived because of the current safety requirements, yes. That and he's a tough ol' SOB!