Head Bolts Or Studs

Peter Jack · March 28, 2015, 08:17:45 PM

The reason I prefer the solid inserts to the coiled Helicoil, Prosert type is that I do a lot of repair work and the coil type inserts seem to get screwed up more often than the solid inserts. There isn't an inherent problem with either type but if an insert's going to get screwed up it seems it will be the coil type.

Bye the way, the inserts that I keep in stock for personal use are the coil type and I don't have any problems with them.

Pete

salt27 · March 28, 2015, 08:32:01 PM

Gabe, Sorry for the hijack.

Pete, Thanks for the reply.

Don

BasementBorn · March 28, 2015, 08:46:32 PM

Don, absolutely no problem. Good info to have.

Thanks everyone fore the responses.

Jack Gifford · March 28, 2015, 10:42:30 PM

Quote from: Milwaukee Midget on March 28, 2015, 08:42:14 AM... I hate helicoils . . .

My light alloy projects wouldn't be anywhere without HeliCoils- lots and lots of 'em, along with many many rolled-thread fasteners.

BasemenBorn- ARP folks say they will make any custom fastener; but I don't know how pricey that would be.

noboD · March 29, 2015, 06:00:52 AM

I have used Heli-coils for years in plastic and aluminum. But since learning about Time Serts I prefer them.

fordboy628 · March 29, 2015, 06:18:36 AM

Quote from: Jack Gifford on March 28, 2015, 10:42:30 PM
My light alloy projects wouldn't be anywhere without HeliCoils- lots and lots of 'em, along with many many rolled-thread fasteners.

BasemenBorn- ARP folks say they will make any custom fastener; but I don't know how pricey that would be.

Very pricey. They make a lot of custom stuff for F1 and Nascar, and have learned how to charge for one offs . . . . . . .

Financially, you are way better off adapting something from their normal stock, to work for your application.

But hey, if you can afford to have them fab up something special, by all means do so.

My point is this: Both ways work.

My advice is: Don't get "hung up" on your project, looking for the "perfect" solution, if it doesn't already exist. Adequate and/or acceptable are not "bad words", and they get the job done.

Fordboy

bearingburner · March 29, 2015, 10:39:56 AM

Saved several flathead blocks a long time ago with heli coils.

maj · March 29, 2015, 03:31:55 PM

Quote from: BasementBorn on March 25, 2015, 06:39:51 PM
I'll have to do some more digging around with them and see if we can turn anything up. Hopefully I can find something that will work.

I do know that APE makes head studs for the same year 750 which is very similar to the 600 in most aspects. The problem with them is the length. Do any of you see any potential problems with either shortening them, assuming there are enough threads available, or adding a spacer between the head and the nut? Just speaking in general because I assume not many have experiences with this specific engine of course.

Coming in late here , but we use busa studs in our 750, earlier generation than your 600, but they need 15mm spacers to work and a couple of studs need about 3 threads cut off for bearing and cam pin clearance , and they work fine , more than fine
sounds like you can just use the 750 or 1000 studs with minimal changes for a reliable system

BasementBorn · March 30, 2015, 08:24:00 AM

It sounds like the way to go to me. Either studs made for the application or some that I have to adapt a little are going to be much better than the stock bolts and ease my mind a lot.

wobblywalrus · March 30, 2015, 08:38:47 PM

Basement, a set of new standard studs and bolts might be your best option. The cross-reference list shows them used for bikes much more powerful than the 600 with approximately the same number of bolts holding the head down. Aluminum expands when heated more then steel. The studs are designed to have the proper amount of give so they provide clamping forces within the desired range. Use of overly stiff studs can result in too much clamping force when the engine is hot and this can over compress the gaskets and/or cause permanent distortion of the cylinder head. Cylinder head studs and bolts are engineered features. A lot of calculation goes into choosing the right dimensions and materials.

BasementBorn · April 03, 2015, 08:04:53 AM

So, just a little update. I got my block back from APE yesterday, took all the measurements of the block and head and called ARP this morning. Turns out they make a set for a 2.0L Toyota that should work. about 160 from Summit. Glad you all told me to call.

Buickguy3 · April 03, 2015, 09:35:38 AM

When we looked at ARP for studs for the Buick straight 8 they said that they didn't have a set listed and we gave the measurements to them they had everything on the shelf and asked if we wanted them to list them as a set. We said it would be doubtful that they would sell many sets and not to bother. Turns out that we have bought several more sets and they may well be listed now.
Doug

fordboy628 · April 03, 2015, 09:46:37 AM

Quote from: BasementBorn on April 03, 2015, 08:04:53 AM
So, just a little update. I got my block back from APE yesterday, took all the measurements of the block and head and called ARP this morning. Turns out they make a set for a 2.0L Toyota that should work. about 160 from Summit. Glad you all told me to call.

I love it when the wheel doesn't need to be re-invented!!

Fordboy

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Head Bolts Or Studs