Water/Methanol Injection Article

[SnowTech]

got my stage 3, just not finished installing it yet

Well lookie there.  Let me know if you need any assistance getting that Stage 3 all hooked up.  I'm sure you'll enjoy it once you get it all in.

Nate

[}{ead$hot Zod]

I actually premiered it at Alt-Wheels in Boston last year. http://www.altwheels.org/aw06indexfull/img_5050.jpg It was about as hooked up as it is now. I figured that being it was an alternative fuel show, nobody mechanically inclined would really show up and be able to pick off that it wasn't completely together. And I was right. I had to show them were I had to drill it into the intake still.  The sign on the side of the truck was "powered by vegetable oil", last year I added "and windshield washer fluid". You guys got a lot of ohhhh's and ahhhh's.

[SnowTech]

I always get a long pause on the phone when ever I tell customers that they can pick up 50-80 hp on their diesel truck using windshield washer fluid which is then followed by "did you just say washer fluid??"

Nate

[russ jensen]

I always get a long pause on the phone when ever I tell customers that they can pick up 50-80 hp on their diesel truck using windshield washer fluid which is then followed by "did you just say washer fluid??"

Nate

Dangerous business here- got to make 2 pistons & repair billet al head on diesel pulling tractor that thought washer fluid was a good idea instead of water..russ

[Stainless1]

Russ, did ya use the blue stuff  or the green stuff 

Did the rods stay straight on the pistons that were not damaged 

[landracing]

I always get a long pause on the phone when ever I tell customers that they can pick up 50-80 hp on their diesel truck using windshield washer fluid which is then followed by "did you just say washer fluid??"

Nate

Dangerous business here- got to make 2 pistons & repair billet al head on diesel pulling tractor that thought washer fluid was a good idea instead of water..russ

Im thinking there was a malfunction in the setup rather then being "Washer Fluid" vs "Water"...

Jon

[russ jensen]

Russ, did ya use the blue stuff  or the green stuff 

Did the rods stay straight on the pistons that were not damaged 

I made the rods & they have survived 3 crankshafts- they have stayed straight for the last 10 years.- I'm not sure which color stuff he used..

[russ jensen]

Nate

Im thinking there was a malfunction in the setup rather then being "Washer Fluid" vs "Water"...

Jon

Don't think so-- made 2 more pistons{made me mad as he was to cheap to have me make spares in first place}went back to water and has run  O K ever since-damage to pistons was burn {or melt} damage to head was burn around valve seat- old puller{shotgun red- the wining est superstock to ever hook to a ntpa skid} when he called to see how big perkins was doing & found out  bout washer fluid - immediately  asked "how many pistons did he burn" he is like  Jack - been there & done that..russ

[JackD]

WWJD
It sounds like you have pinned down the WHAT with your own results.
Now you have to find out the WHY part so you can understand more about it.
Chemistry can be your friend if you understand it.
In your position it might not be information you want to share.

[hotrod]

Some of the "blue juice" windshield washer fluids have enough detergent additive in them, that they can clog the spray nozzles due to a build up. It appears this happens when the spray fluid has a chance to repeatedly evaporate off the nozzle, leaving behind a buildup of the detergent goop. One way to clean out the nozzles if you see that happening is to boil them in vinegar to re-dissolve the goo.

Pre-filters on the nozzles also help of you have any sort of crud floating in the lines.

Larry

[}{ead$hot Zod]

I think the lesser quality fluids probably have less detergent. Rainex with bug cleaners would probably be bad. But Snow Perf has a mixture, or I guess you could mix your own w/ your own meth. Or use Heet and washer fluid to bring the meth content up/

[russ jensen]

Isn't talked bout much - but instead of alky in the water- some are using hydrogen peroxide..russ

[SnowTech]

I always get a long pause on the phone when ever I tell customers that they can pick up 50-80 hp on their diesel truck using windshield washer fluid which is then followed by "did you just say washer fluid??"

Nate

Dangerous business here- got to make 2 pistons & repair billet al head on diesel pulling tractor that thought washer fluid was a good idea instead of water..russ

Are you suggesting that a small concentration of methanol melted through two of your pistons?  There are so many variables involved that I find it difficult to believe that washer fluid had enough methanol in it to cause any kind of catastrophic damage.  We've got a fairly well hot rodded '04 Cummins 3500 here in the shop that is our test mule.  That truck hasn't gone a day in its life with less than 70% methanol in it.  Catastrophic failues are more frequently caused by overfueling conditions than water/methanol.  If too much water/methanol is injected into a diesel motor it will simply quench and misfire.  BTW -20 degree f washer fluid has about a 30% concentration of methanol. 

Some of the "blue juice" windshield washer fluids have enough detergent additive in them, that they can clog the spray nozzles due to a build up. It appears this happens when the spray fluid has a chance to repeatedly evaporate off the nozzle, leaving behind a buildup of the detergent goop. One way to clean out the nozzles if you see that happening is to boil them in vinegar to re-dissolve the goo.

Pre-filters on the nozzles also help of you have any sort of crud floating in the lines.

Our nozzles have pre-filters built into them. 

I think the lesser quality fluids probably have less detergent. Rainex with bug cleaners would probably be bad. But Snow Perf has a mixture, or I guess you could mix your own w/ your own meth. Or use Heet and washer fluid to bring the meth content up

We've seen that the lesser quality fluids usually have lower concentrations of methanol as well.  -20 degree fluid usually has 25-35% methanol, 0 degree fluid usually has 10-20% methanol, and 32 degree fluid has 0-10% methanol.  FYI Wal-Mart brand "SuperTec" winter blend washer fluid has one of the highest concentrations of methanol we've come across at ~36%.  We do not recommend that any specialized washer fluids with bug removers or water shedders (Rain-X) be used for injection purposes.  Also, washer fluid that is rated below -20 degree typically has glycol based antifreeze agents which is also a no-no for injection.

Isn't talked bout much - but instead of alky in the water- some are using hydrogen peroxide..russ

From our research and according to a number of SAE technical papers, the combustion characteristics of methanol make it act as a catalyst in a diesel.  Because of its effective octane/cetane rating and combustion rate, methanol tends to work best in a diesel application.

Hope this helped.

Nate

[landracing]

Nate,

How do those controllers work. What can you control? Is there more to the story on those controllers then what your website says? Or Doesnt say? And lets say we want a system for a 4 cylinder is there a system for a nozzle / cylinder or just a single nozzle setup?

Jon

[Speed Limit 1000]

[quote   Also, washer fluid that is rated below -20 degree typically has glycol based antifreeze agents which is also a no-no for injection.

Mazda used glycol-water injection to help with the cold weather starting on RX4 and RX7 rotories 1976-1986, seamed to work good.