e85 question

[team_cougar]

Hi,
If I convert my Cougar to run on E85, since I'm a hippie type at heart, will it still be in the gas class since I'm using a gas blend?
I haven't gotten my rulebooks yet in the mail, so I don't know if it's already been covered...

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I think this has been covered, and I think it won't be considered "gas" since it's 85% ethanol.  And to have it "legal" for gas class you'll have to get it from the event fuel vendor, and that implies the race sanctioning organisation will have to convince the vendor to bring some to the track.

Then there's the misconception that the E85 is "environmentally" friendly, but that's a political discussion and I won't go into it here.  If you want to chat -- email me directly.

[team_cougar]

Roger that, Slim.

[Dean Los Angeles]

The question was posted in ECTA so I wonder how they handle gasoline. Is there an event gas? Do they hold a dielectric constant and test? The SCTA standard is a D.C. of 2.3

Q: What is the definition of Dielectric Constant?

A: The dielectric constant (DC) of a substance is a measure of the relative effectiveness of that substance as an electrical insulator.  The perfect electrical insulator is a vacuum, which has a DC of 1.00000.  By comparison, air has a DC of 1.00059, almost the same as a vacuum, and water has a DC value of 78.2.  A dielectric meter measures the relative DC of gasoline by measuring the difference in capacitance of the probe between a standard (usually cyclohexane, with true DC value of 2.025) and the gasoline sample. 

Q: Why is measurement of this characteristic an effective test for gasoline?

A: Gasoline as refined is a mixture of pure hydrocarbons.  A unique physical property of a pure hydrocarbon fluid is that its DC is virtually the lowest of any liquid. The addition of power enhancing additives to gasoline, such as some oxygen and nitrogen bearing compounds, cause gasoline's DC to rise dramatically. A gasoline dielectric tester thus provides a simple, reliable way of determining whether a competitor's fuel has been adulterated.

Adding Ethanol to gasoline will increase the oxygen component. Ethanol is C₂H₅OH. Gasoline formulations don't have oxygen.

Running E85 would give a huge advantage over gasoline.

[dwarner]

Didn't GM Performance run a Cobalt a couple of years ago in the fuel classes with E85 as the fuel of choice and set some records? 

It seems to me that a bunch of GM students can race just as hard as anyone on the salt and move to the top of the list in their class. These kids are the future of LSR.

DW .

[team_cougar]

So, does this mean that E85 would be placed in an alcohol class despite being a pump fuel?
Or, does it mean I can't run it since I can't get it from the track supplier?
Or both? 

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Yup, to the former (I'm pretty sure).

Ditto Yup to the latter, unless Rick Gold decides to bring some, and even then I don't know if it'll be legal for gas classes.

[Sumner]

.................... unless Rick Gold decides to bring some, and even then I don't know if it'll be legal for gas classes.

I don't see anyway that it could be considered in the gas class no mater if it came from a pump or Rick.  If you read the latest mags, guys are doing really impressive stuff with it that is not possible on gas.

c ya,

Sum

[team_cougar]

Thanks guys.

So, what's the octane of the gasoline fuel(s) used at the track?

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I'm not positive what available at Maxton (haven't run there in a year and a half), but at Bonneville there's usually some unleaded 100 and 104, and leaded 110, 114, 117, maybe some more flavors, too.  All of the gasolines at the track are allowed in "gas" classes. 

If you've got a specific favorite that's made by a different manufacturer -- for instance, you want to run VP -- consider contacting the sanctioning organisation and ask if they will allow you to bring a sealed-at-the-factory can of your flavor choice, open the can while under supervision, fill your tank while being observed, and then have your tank sealed.  You might get away with it.

But -- the fuel vendors have a selection available, and since most of the racers will use track gas -- see if you can purchase a sample of the track gas before the meet, tune your motor on that fuel, and then support the venodr by buying from him at the track.  That's a good way to do it.

[1212FBGS]

nope VP wont fly in gas class.... Rick Gold pays dearly to bring gas and fuel to the events and none of the other makers wont come out to help us.... so we should support those venders that support us and buy his fuel.... he will ship 5 gal pails and 15gal mini drums to ya for tuning... rick is also very knowledgable about his products....call him for a chat about what fuels will work for ya.
kent

[team_cougar]

It's not a major issue for me. If I convert my car to E85, I can just change the carb and drain the fuel to run gasoline at Maxton.
My 429 is going to run on 87 octane anyway, so I don't think 100+ will be a problem.
I was just wondering.

And, I'm all about supporting people who support LSR. So, I'll just run Gas.

How do I get in touch with the elusive Mr Gold?

[Stainless1]

TC, while VP and all the others won't fly at Bonneville, you need to contact someone at ECTA, heck, they might even start E85 racing classes, they are not as locked up as the scta.... 
Contact info is available at the link on the homepage of this site...
have some fun...

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Andy:

Try this address, attention Rick Gold:  ercracingfuels@sbcglobal.net

Jon

[jrproflo]

Who was the individual or company providing the event gas at Maxton for the October meet? Will the same company be there for 2008?