WHAT IS THE SALT LIKE

[superford317]

For some of the things I am currently working on and for future projects, I wanted to know just how hard the salt surface is and what can I compare it to, in watching videos I can see "rooster tails" of salt being thrown in the air during runs. Would it be similar to a very hard packed sand surface or closer to hard packed dirt? During the course of a day's event how much is the surface chewed up.  Can you force your hands into the surface; does it break off in chunks?
Thanks for any help and comparisons that can be made; I am definitely not familiar with the salt surface, having never seen it before. 

[McRat]

I've only raced there 2 events, but I would compare the traction to wet asphalt, or hard-pack clay.  With an aggressive tire, it will actually lay down rubber and you'll get the tires to squeal.  The race surface is groomed, but the surrounding areas is like a mosaic of random polygons the size of your fist.  The salt is damp, so it adheres to everything.  After a run, you can pick up a lot weight worth of salt.  We didn't weigh it, but I'll bet it was over 50lb.  Probably twice that.

[hotrod]

The salt surface varies by year and even day to day and hour to hour.

When sun baked and dry it is as hard as sun baked clay. It takes a 2# hammer to drive a spike in it when it is this condition, and as mentioned above you can lay down rubber on hard acceleration or braking.

When there is moisture in the salt (say following a previous days rain) the sun will draw the moisture to the surface. If you set something absorbent on the salt surface it will wick up this brine film. Under these conditions it can get slick as mentioned above more like wet concrete or asphalt.

Shortly after rain the top 1/2 inch or so behaves a bit like wet snow, it will stick to your shoes and tires and collect on the body work like wet snow does and fall off in clumps. As it dries out the salt acts more like packed dirt with the tires and air flow around the vehicle picking up a "salt cloud" at speed. The salt rooster tails you notice are to some extent dependent on your viewing angle relative to the sun. Under some lighting conditions they are hardly visible, under other conditions much more visible.

My observation as a photographer on the long course is "significant" salt rooster tail does not form until the car gets up to between 100-180 mph depending on salt conditions and the aerodynamics of the car. I usually see the salt plume before I can see the car at about 1 to 1.5 miles down the course.

Under hard dry salt conditions relatively little surface salt buildup develops on rocker panels and fender wells, under damp conditions a salt layer develops but generally sheds off the body work before it gets too thick. When the salt is a bit wet (sticks to shoes when you walk) it will build up thick deposits on rocker panels and inside wheel wells. Like heavy wet snow this build up can almost entirely fill the fender well and might impair steering at the end of a run.

As a general rule I would say on average traction closely resembles what I see on hard packed rural dirt roads.

Larry

[jimmy six]

Build a fiberglass open wheel car...You will be a lot happier in the long run..Good Luck

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Larry beat me to a post, but I'll add a comment or two anyway.  When you're trying to hold down the waterproof tarp in the pits -- you'll need something like a hammer and big (6-8") nails.  We use 3/8" lag screws driven by a hammer drill.  Whatever -- it isn't possible to push stuff into the surface bare-handed.

Salt will accumulate on the underparts of your race vehicle and your support truck and anything else you drive onto the salt.  The wetter it is on the salt -- the more that'll stick on.  Take a look (during the event) at how many cars have marked their spot in the parking lots of the grocery store or the motels or whatever.  When you're leaving the salt the last time (On the way back home) you can get your highway car (and other stuff, too) by the folks that get stationed at the end of the road to use a pressure washer to clean stuff.  there's a price -- it's not too bad.  Some racers don't like using pressure washer for the tack, some do.   A common way to remove what's underneath is to park the car in your driveway at home, directly over a lawn sprinkler.  Let it run right there for an hour or four, then move the sprinkler three feet and repeat, and then repeat, and then repeat.  You'll be amazed at how much salt is still there even after a long and bumpy and raid-soaked drive back home.

[jacksoni]

Couple photos. When is dry and not so dry. Not so much the track which is wheel packed but pits and return roads. Look at the tires and wheel well on the race car and then on the truck. Pounding large nails into the salt for tents/tarps often results in bent nails and I am talking big spike stuff. It is hard, but as others have said, surface can be damp, sticky, granular etc. At speed, cars do make rooster tails if the track is more on the dry/dusty side. Seriously cool looking at something fast go by with one following.

[Nortonist 592]

This is the inside of my sidecar wheel fairing after SpeedWeek 2010.  The sidecar wheel is a 5" kart wheel but it managed to throw 21 lbs. ( I weighed it) into the small fairing.  When its damp it sticks like an IRS bill.


By weslake at 2010-09-02

[SPARKY]

  lol


When it perfect its like new concrete,-- when its dry it can be like smooth asphalt with sand spread on it--

The clumpy wet you can watch my return run spin at you tube car 2211 245 spin---well almost spin

[bak189]

We used to run a 5 inch wheel and tire on the sidecar side of our outfit....replaced it with a 17 inch wheel using a Goodyear 21/2 wide front runner tire.....hardly any throw off salt inside the sidecar wheel fender and Yes, we have the weight of a passenger on this wheel......One of the other sidecars running the BUB Trials is the wide tire roadracing type....Had over 30 pounds of salt inside the fairing after 2 runs........use narrow wheels and tires on the front and chair wheel, very little salt build-up.................................................

[McRat]

Aside from traction ...

When you do a run, you turn off the course, then you stop in the middle of the Bonneville Salt Flats.  You shut down, and climb out.

There is nothing else on earth that I've seen that is comparable to it. 

It is truly surreal. 

While the excitement, technology, personalities, and history, are down near the start line, being out there on the salt after a run is something that is very hard to describe.

[thundersalt]

Aside from traction ...

When you do a run, you turn off the course, then you stop in the middle of the Bonneville Salt Flats.  You shut down, and climb out.

There is nothing else on earth that I've seen that is comparable to it. 

It is truly surreal. 

While the excitement, technology, personalities, and history, are down near the start line, being out there on the salt after a run is something that is very hard to describe.

To me being at the top end feels like a time machine. Even at 200+ you make a 5 mile run, slow and turn off just before the 6, find the return road and stop, gather your thoughts, get out, remove gloves, helmet , jacket, pick up the chute and put in the car, begin to drink a water when your support crew is just now pulling up to get you after you just left the starting line at the same time as them. Always seems a little weird to me.

[theazoldcrow]

  The Salt is akin to learning how to swim,,,,You can read all the books in the world written on "how to do it",,,but until You jump in the water you'll never really know how.  The Salt is the same,,,,,

[jl222]

 
 Salt conditions affect how smooth the course can be graded,it has to be dragged smooth to get rid of pressure ridges,high and low spots ect. Bville crews are on the salt about a week before the meet grading and setting up the course, entry and return roads ect.

 Haven't got a chance to talk with graders to find out exactly, but lack of rain [ from what I've heard] makes
the salt to hard to drag smooth leaving high and low spots [like last year]. Hard for me to describe but long high
spots with low next to them varying in width and length reducing traction.

Not tried it but have heard if you take a good amount of table salt, wet it and when it dries it's similar to Bville salt.

   JL222

  Just poured salt in peach jar lid and wet it Waiting to dry.

         

[Seldom Seen Slim]

For the sake of the discussion, I remember a few years ago when the course was so uneven that a regular ol' road grader (a/k/a motor grader) was brought in to scrape.  It couldn't do a thing -- the surface was so hard that the scraper blade just rode over the surface.

Maybe a Zamboni (ice hockey rink ice-smoother) could be designed to work on the salt -- but that's for someone with far deeper pockets the SCTA/BNI, USFRA, and Bub's.  But that's be the way to do it.  the Zamboni wets the surface. scrapes it, and a rotary grinder at the far back polishes/smooths.  It'd take a loooooong time to do four courses 100' wide by miles long

[Stan Back]

It sure can get a bit rough.  In 2005 (or 06?), we were the fifth car to attempt the Long Course, but the first to make it all the way.  One and done.