Help with classification

[notfarnow]

Why don't you run it as a streamliner?  All you need to do is enclose two wheels.  The Diesel Streamliner records for G and H are 145 and 116.

Thanks! I don't know how I missed that. The "H" record seems a little soft, eh?

Furthermore:

5.A.1 "Turbochargers, superchargers, and any choice of fuel are allowed in Diesel Streamliner class."

I could run vegetable oil without having to run "time only", and with a VW 1.5, could even have a crack at that "H" record!

Great forum, thanks for the help thinking this through.

[tortoise]

. . . with a VW 1.5, could even have a crack at that "H" record!

A converted Formula Vee would make a lousy streamliner, though.

[notfarnow]

A converted Formula Vee would make a lousy streamliner, though.

Wouldn't be a perfect car, but I don't think 116+ would be out of the question. Heck, there are 1200cc Formula vees that have topped 120mph

[dwarner]

I wouldn't too excited about that 116 record. To run on an FIA record you will have to contract for private time, figure 15-20K to run 116+ MPH.

The SCTA-BNI, USFRA do not currently support FIA records .

Also:
Section 2.B Fuels states "When a specific class is not available ...or diesel fuel may compete in gasoline classes."

Bonneville records are :
G/BGL - 212.765
G/GL -   211.463
H/BGL - 198.859
H/GL -   227.667
It is awful hard to make a dual purpose car a record contender these days.

DW

[Speed Limit 1000]

The G and H blown records are a little soft, but roomer has it that Stainless is going blown this year with his Lakester.

[dwarner]

For a guy looking to best 116MPH 212 and 198 may not seem so soft.

DW

[notfarnow]

For a guy looking to best 116MPH 212 and 198 may not seem so soft.
DW

LOL, true, that!
Thanks DW, I think you're right: BGL & GL would not be a good class

I wouldn't too excited about that 116 record. To run on an FIA record you will have to contract for private time, figure 15-20K to run 116+ MPH.

The 116 record is H/DS
That's the one I'm mulling over now.

The SCTA-BNI, USFRA do not currently support FIA records .

Thanks, I did some reading last night and saw that. The FIA meets were all private affairs, not at sanctioned events.

Also:
Section 2.B Fuels states "When a specific class is not available ...or diesel fuel may compete in gasoline classes.
Bonneville records are :
G/BGL - 212.765
G/GL -   211.463
H/BGL - 198.859
H/GL -   227.667"

If I wanted to run vegetable oil in the lakester classes, I'd have to run in FL.
But there IS a specific class for diesel streamliner, and furthermore, ANY FUEL is acceptable. I could run on bacon fat if I wanted.

It is awful hard to make a dual purpose car a record contender these days.
DW

I agree, which is why that H/DS record seems like the only one where I could compete. An "old school" streamliner body like this would work on a Vee Chassis:

[sockjohn]

notfarnow ,
I get the impression it seems your goal is to run a diesel in a small engine class.

There is a class of cars in Japan called "Kei cars" that are under 660cc or something like that, basically small city cars.  The Smart car I think falls under this description.

If you could find a non-turbo diesel (probably impossible), the Unblown Grand Touring Sports - /GT , engine class J looks soft to me.  (My thinking that it is soft is based on the Honda Beat stock top speed, so I could be way out of line here)
J     "S" Car-Go     E. Dittmer     ' 92       80.143
http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/records/BNIrecs_cat_f.htm

Personally, having seen prices on formula-vees, not sure it's the best platform on price alone.  I would think a modified dragster would be a better lakester or streamliner option, and probably a bit cheaper to boot.

[Sumner]

If  you are going to run streamliner or lakester the price of steel to build a frame is beer money compared to all the other costs of building the car and safety equipment, so why not build a frame that will allow you to maximize the effort.  I think trying to adapt something else to run these classes is going to be an expensive futile effort that sooner or later will be abandoned at probably great expense.

Just my feelings,

Sum

[notfarnow]

If you could find a non-turbo diesel (probably impossible), the Unblown Grand Touring Sports - /GT , engine class J looks soft to me.  (My thinking that it is soft is based on the Honda Beat stock top speed, so I could be way out of line here)
J     "S" Car-Go     E. Dittmer     ' 92       80.143
http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/records/BNIrecs_cat_f.htm

Problem is, if I ran vegetable oil, I'd have to run for "time only".
DS allows any fuel

Personally, having seen prices on formula-vees, not sure it's the best platform on price alone.  I would think a modified dragster would be a better lakester or streamliner option, and probably a bit cheaper to boot.

Good points, mind you a formula Vee "roller" is pretty inexpensive in the NE. I've seen a few for 2-3K. I wouldn't buy a complete, turnkey car only to hack & hew at it.

If  you are going to run streamliner or lakester the price of steel to build a frame is beer money compared to all the other costs of building the car and safety equipment, so why not build a frame that will allow you to maximize the effort.  I think trying to adapt something else to run these classes is going to be an expensive futile effort that sooner or later will be abandoned at probably great expense.
Just my feelings,
Sum

I appreciate you advice a great deal. I don't think I would have an "ideal" streamliner, but at the same time, that wouldn't be my goal either.

I'm probably approaching this from a very different angle than most of you. Once I get my ducks in a row, I won't be building a car FOR Bonneville. I will be building a car that I can enjoy, possibly even street legal, that CAN run in a class at Bonneville. The effort won't be futile because it will be a car that I build for ME first, with Bonneville specs in mind.

Keep in mind that I am only in my early thirties, just married and will be starting a family soon. I won't be chasing Bonneville over & over for years to come. My "slush fund" for a fun car has to be a car I can enjoy for a while, not just for one week in 5 years. One reason a Formula Vee chassis is ideal, is that with a bit of convincing, they can be registered on the road.

Because of the dual, possibly triple, use of the vehicle, it may not be a perfect Bonneville car. However, I want to get out on the salt, and I want to run vegetable oil. I may not be able to break the H/DS record, but at least I wouldn't have to run "time only", like I would in any other class.

[Sumner]

I may not be able to break the H/DS record, but at least I wouldn't have to run "time only", like I would in any other class.

What is wrong with running "time only"??  A number of people do it and I hope to do it at some point with my pickup as it doesn't fit any class.  For the goals you have stated above I think that would be the perfect approach.  You can maximize the car for the road and then see what it will do on the salt.  You won't have to compromise the real purpose of the car.

Don't forget that in the streamliner/lakester classes modified production bodies are prohibited, but maybe you plan on making a body from scratch anyway for what you want to do.

Good luck,

Sum

[notfarnow]

What is wrong with running "time only"??  A number of people do it and I hope to do it at some point with my pickup as it doesn't fit any class.  For the goals you have stated above I think that would be the perfect approach.  You can maximize the car for the road and then see what it will do on the salt.  You won't have to compromise the real purpose of the car.

Exactly, and that was why I originally thought of running in H or G /BFL using diesel, then run vegetable oil "for time only". However, the records are very high and I'd need tired rated for 200+ mph.

With the current record for H/DL, I could possibly have a crack at the record, AND
I could build a car with bodywork better suited for road use (IE not open wheel), AND I could run vegetable oil.

Don't forget that in the streamliner/lakester classes modified production bodies are prohibited, but maybe you plan on making a body from scratch anyway for what you want to do.

Very good point. My  thinking is custom fiberglass body, open for street us but with an enclosed cockpit for the salts. Fiberglass is heavier than aluminum, but for a novice like me... WAY easier to get the shape that I'd want.

[RichFox]

You wouldn't be the first guy to run an old formula type car as a lakester. Dave Martin? ran an older formula Ford with a Lotus 907 for years and had fun doing it. Lot of suspension hanging out in the wind but if he was happy why not.

[tortoise]

Don't forget that in the streamliner/lakester classes modified production bodies are prohibited, but maybe you plan on making a body from scratch anyway for what you want to do.

Very good point. My  thinking is custom fiberglass body, open for street us but with an enclosed cockpit for the salts. Fiberglass is heavier than aluminum, but for a novice like me... WAY easier to get the shape that I'd want.

Would a modified replica production body be legal for special construction? A Porsche 356 with fender skirts, windshield removed, single seater windscreen, (maybe a full canopy) etc., would be damn clean, and building a kit on a VW pan, you could retain the VW title, bypassing all the special construction road licensing hassles.

[jimmy six]

Replica is replica. That's why modified roadsters don't run in lakester. It's also why you don't see narrowed fiberglass fronts like one you would find on a Opel GTor anything else on streamliners. Good Luck