Milwaukee Midget

[manta22]

Thanks, Fordboy. I'll contact Crower to see if they can provide profile data on my cam.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[Milwaukee Midget]

Thanks, Fordboy. I'll contact Crower to see if they can provide profile data on my cam.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

The cynic in me suspects you'll discover it's a closely guarded secret.

And if I send my "higher angels" on a holiday, I suspect the big secret is that if you put it on a cam-doctor, the print-out will be the same as an Isky grind - or a Crane grind - or a Howard grind.

But Neil, you're a persuasive fellow who is not likely to take "we won't/can't do that" for an answer.  Just keep moving up the food chain. 

[manta22]

Thanks, Chris. Yes, that Crower cam profile is probably not anything that isn't duplicated closely by other cam grinders; reverse- engineering a profile should be easy with the right equipment. Some engine analyzer programs have a library of grinds so I thought someone might know of some profile info on a Crower 00427. This is for a relatively mild engine that I'll use to get the car sorted out.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[Peter Jack]

I haven't dealt with Crower recently, but in times past they were always open and really easy to deal with. I let someone else who knows what they're doing build my engines now rather than letting some amateur try it by attempting it myself. 

Pete

[fordboy628]

The cynic in me suspects you'll discover it's a closely guarded secret.

When I started using a Cam Dr. 25 years ago, it was surprising how many grinds "overlaid" perfectly on top of one and other.

I'm no longer surprised by this "phenomenon".

Real creativity and insightful ability are by themselves, very rare things.    When coupled together, they are even more rare . . . . .

Fordboy

[jacksoni]

Thanks, Chris. Yes, that Crower cam profile is probably not anything that isn't duplicated closely by other cam grinders; reverse- engineering a profile should be easy with the right equipment. Some engine analyzer programs have a library of grinds so I thought someone might know of some profile info on a Crower 00427. This is for a relatively mild engine that I'll use to get the car sorted out.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

EAPro shows this as a SBC, hydraulic roller. LSA 112 recommended install at 108/116 centers (ie 4* advanced). 260/266 at .050, lobe lift .390/.398 with 1.5 rockers. Interesting they give a lash number of .026 and .028 though list it as a HR. Ramp intensity listed as 30.5 and 25.5. This is grind number 290R with seat duration ratings of 290/296.

Have you built/run the engine? If you want to give some specs, I can run it through EAPro if you like.

[manta22]

Thanks- your data matches my cam card except Crower says it is a mechanical roller cam, not a hydraulic. I thought the cam profile data needed was lift vs degrees of rotation to calculate flow over the complete range of off- seat time. Maybe that info is in the EAPro library data already?

I have built the engine but I have not fired it up yet. I'm waiting to install the whole engine/transaxle unit into my chassis before cranking it over. What info would you need for EAPro? I appreciate your offer.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[jacksoni]

Thanks- your data matches my cam card except Crower says it is a mechanical roller cam, not a hydraulic. I thought the cam profile data needed was lift vs degrees of rotation to calculate flow over the complete range of off- seat time. Maybe that info is in the EAPro library data already?

I have built the engine but I have not fired it up yet. I'm waiting to install the whole engine/transaxle unit into my chassis before cranking it over. What info would you need for EAPro? I appreciate your offer.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

That certainly makes sense and likely is just some typo in the data set. The lash setting being a tip off as well. You are not going to get lift/degree from anyone I don't think- cam DR it or measure by hand- which I have done time to time and is a PITA but some programs can take that data as a notepad set and make curves from it. ( I have one of those but is lot more work to put stuff in)

If you want me to run it need: bore, stroke, rod length, type of ring package ( low tension or not) are you using typical bearings or small ones, coatings, CR, head flows ( may have a library of typical heads- what are on it?) valve sizes, type of water pump(electric?), port length and avg diameter for both int and exh, and fan drive (electric, low ratio pulleys etc), chamber design ( wedge, pent roof, hemi etc), what type of intake manifold, carb or FI, flow rating of carb. have the cam, header size- diameter, length, collector dia and length, etc. In other words, everything you know about the build.

Alternatively just give me some basics and I'll pull some generic sample and see but the more detail closer will get to your actual.

[manta22]

Thanks for doing this. I'll get the data together and PM you.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[Frankenhealey]

unless anybody knows where I can find some NOS Leyland 970 rods -  - I didn't think so!

Something like these?

[fordboy628]

You are not going to get lift/degree from anyone I don't think-   Very, very unlikely . . . . .  this is considered proprietary information.

cam DR it or measure by hand- which I have done time to time and is a PITA but some programs can take that data as a notepad set and make curves from it. ( I have one of those but is lot more work to put stuff in)

Cam Analyser from Performance Trends can accept hand accumulated data via hand entry into the program for analysis.  It can also import data from other cam measuring programs, as well as data in a spreadsheet format.   There are several versions with increasing capability.  For details see:

http://performancetrends.com/download.htm#ca

Some caveats about cam profiling:
A)   More information is always better, hence the PITA nature of hand data accumulation/hand entry.   Measurement at intervals of 2 degrees of crank rotation is best, lots of work and data points.    By hand, lots of opportunities for errors.    Need to work carefully.

2)   Compared to measurements taken by high resolution encoders, hand accumulated data accuracy suffers.  It is not accurate enough to analyze acceleration and jerk.

d)   The accuracy by hand is good enough if you are careful, and you just want to analyze displacement and maybe velocity data.    You save yourself $2K over purchasing a complete entry level measurement setup.    You should be able to find a shop with a Cam Dr. or a Cam Pro who will test the cam for you for about $125.    You should get a written report for this charge, not just a detailed cam card.   Expect to pay more to test every lobe and get a detailed analysis.

Fordboy

[manta22]

Thanks- your data matches my cam card except Crower says it is a mechanical roller cam, not a hydraulic. I thought the cam profile data needed was lift vs degrees of rotation to calculate flow over the complete range of off- seat time. Maybe that info is in the EAPro library data already?

I have built the engine but I have not fired it up yet. I'm waiting to install the whole engine/transaxle unit into my chassis before cranking it over. What info would you need for EAPro? I appreciate your offer.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

That certainly makes sense and likely is just some typo in the data set. The lash setting being a tip off as well. You are not going to get lift/degree from anyone I don't think- cam DR it or measure by hand- which I have done time to time and is a PITA but some programs can take that data as a notepad set and make curves from it. ( I have one of those but is lot more work to put stuff in)

If you want me to run it need: bore, stroke, rod length, type of ring package ( low tension or not) are you using typical bearings or small ones, coatings, CR, head flows ( may have a library of typical heads- what are on it?) valve sizes, type of water pump(electric?), port length and avg diameter for both int and exh, and fan drive (electric, low ratio pulleys etc), chamber design ( wedge, pent roof, hemi etc), what type of intake manifold, carb or FI, flow rating of carb. have the cam, header size- diameter, length, collector dia and length, etc. In other words, everything you know about the build.

Alternatively just give me some basics and I'll pull some generic sample and see but the more detail closer will get to your actual.

Jack;

I guess I can't send a PM after all-- your e-mail address is "hidden".

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[jacksoni]

Thanks- your data matches my cam card except Crower says it is a mechanical roller cam, not a hydraulic. I thought the cam profile data needed was lift vs degrees of rotation to calculate flow over the complete range of off- seat time. Maybe that info is in the EAPro library data already?

I have built the engine but I have not fired it up yet. I'm waiting to install the whole engine/transaxle unit into my chassis before cranking it over. What info would you need for EAPro? I appreciate your offer.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

That certainly makes sense and likely is just some typo in the data set. The lash setting being a tip off as well. You are not going to get lift/degree from anyone I don't think- cam DR it or measure by hand- which I have done time to time and is a PITA but some programs can take that data as a notepad set and make curves from it. ( I have one of those but is lot more work to put stuff in)

If you want me to run it need: bore, stroke, rod length, type of ring package ( low tension or not) are you using typical bearings or small ones, coatings, CR, head flows ( may have a library of typical heads- what are on it?) valve sizes, type of water pump(electric?), port length and avg diameter for both int and exh, and fan drive (electric, low ratio pulleys etc), chamber design ( wedge, pent roof, hemi etc), what type of intake manifold, carb or FI, flow rating of carb. have the cam, header size- diameter, length, collector dia and length, etc. In other words, everything you know about the build.

Alternatively just give me some basics and I'll pull some generic sample and see but the more detail closer will get to your actual.

Jack;

I guess I can't send a PM after all-- your e-mail address is "hidden".

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

No trouble sending PM. Go top left and click messages, box opens top left click "new message" box opens to put recipients screen name and topic. But cumbersome. If you want send direct email: wjeyedoc @ Verizon.net (take out the extra spaces)

[manta22]

E-mail sent- thanks, Jack. End of hijack, Chris.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[Milwaukee Midget]

End of hijack, Chris.

The only straight line I endorse is the one between the mile markers.