safe motorcycles LOL

[DahMurf]

Research indicated that a driver involved in a hydro accident flies through the air for a short distance, laterally or vertically. The new system is designed so that a decelerator is released and force-inflated when a driver is thrown from his boat. The device slows the driver down and deposits him gently in the water after he has traveled either 84' laterally or 5½' vertically.

The majority of the LSR MC wrecks I've heard of in the distant past have all put the rider on the ground with the bike, not high siding and flying through the air. I don't see how this is applicable and how this can be safely used on a motorcycle. Can you think for yourself and give me some real world examples of how you THINK this can benefit a motorcycle rider low siding at a high rate of speed there by putting a portion of their body under the bike for a short period of time?

Deb

[DahMurf]

Explain to me how the result of something which FILLS IN the area of low pressure (partial vacuum) and turbulence behind your helmet would be to make the buffeting worse, because I'm just not following your hypothesis.

The additional drag encountered by adding extra material to the sholders and back along with the upforce involved specifically when running naked would make it difficult if not impossible to hold on at high rates of speed. The packed chute will already be working as a chute even before it's deployed.

Deb

[Ratliff]

During another discussion abut safety (I believe here or on SHB.org) Todd enlightened me on a good practice.  To have an on/off switch for the airshifter.  As soon as he gave the scenario of Al checking my bike out for a run and accidentally touching the shift button, the bike going into gear and hurting him, it became an obvious safety requirement to me.  This may be a commen thing that most people do, but I did not know about it at the time.

As for the personal chute on my back.  I would no longer race.  I believe it would endanger my life.  Call me a pussy if you want, but it just doesn't sit right with me.  And its not just what I fear in the deployment of the chute but also the fact it would be attached to my upper back (as in pics) during the run.  At Maxton I can hold my head still for the 20+ seconds for a run, but at Bonneville I was unable to hold my head in place for the entire 5 miles.  My neck muscles would repeatedly get fatigued and relax, letting my head bounce against the steering dampener for 5 - 10 sec before I was able to flex and regain control again(and this was only at speed of high 190s)  Now imagine the chute pack grabbing wind across the top of my back....I may not be able to hold on at the speeds I am now running.

Bill

Code Select Expand

Explain to me how the result of something which FILLS IN the area of low pressure (partial vacuum) and turbulence behind your helmet would be to make the buffeting worse, because I'm just not following your hypothesis.

I am not worried about the small percentage of the chute pack that is behind my helmet, but rather the large part of the pack that protrudes out over each shoulder.  I am going by the pics you have supplied, appling them to the real life situation I would be in with them.
Here is a pic of me at speed, just imagine the pack sticking out past my helmet 4" or 5" on each side.  Please also note my shoulders are rounded down into the tuck not squared off like on the rider in the pics with the chute.

You have the perfect configuration to generate the maximum intensity of low pressure on the top and rear portions of your helmet. The result is turbulence and vortexes creating a strong buffeting. Then on top of that you have no fairing on the front of the bike. It cannot get worse because you already have the worst possible situation.

[narider]

Explain to me (blah blah blah)

Instead, I'd like you to explain how you can with a clear mind ruin threads that would otherwise be extremely beneficial to the average LSR racer (even most of the veterans and officials that are forced through your drivel are blowing you off).

JW, maybe a "I'm more brilliant because of the people I know and read about, if you don't believe me just look back through my posts where I tell you so" section would allow the newbie lsr racers to get involved in some of the average poster's threads.

Ratcliff, why do you have to overwhelm everythread you get involved in. You are steering people away from what gets them hurt by talking about a rider chute that I'm sure less then 1% of the MC pilots and the organizations care about, and less then that would benefit from... even if it were the sliced bread you claim it to be.

I've thought about this as open minded as I can. After envisioning every possible scenario's outcome on the concrete at Maxton (the outcomes I envision when I inspect bikes always include looking their family in the eye if something goes wrong), I can tell you with no uncertainty that if someone shows up with a rider chute as part of their gear, I will fail them without a second thought. And it will take the president, the race director and another inspector's signature to get that person on the track.
Todd

[Ratliff]

Research indicated that a driver involved in a hydro accident flies through the air for a short distance, laterally or vertically. The new system is designed so that a decelerator is released and force-inflated when a driver is thrown from his boat. The device slows the driver down and deposits him gently in the water after he has traveled either 84' laterally or 5½' vertically.

The majority of the LSR MC wrecks I've heard of in the distant past have all put the rider on the ground with the bike, not high siding and flying through the air. I don't see how this is applicable and how this can be safely used on a motorcycle. Can you think for yourself and give me some real world examples of how you THINK this can benefit a motorcycle rider low siding at a high rate of speed there by putting a portion of their body under the bike for a short period of time?

Deb

One of life's lessons which for many takes a long time to learn is when to let go. For example, LETTING GO OF THE FREAKING BIKE.

[narider]

One of life's lessons which for many takes a long time to learn is when to let go. For example, LETTING GO OF THE FREAKING BIKE.

You are absolutley clueless in bike accidents(along wiht other intenet interaction apparently... get out of the books and away from the computer and stop the reading for awhile, instead go out and ride a bike and then study some bike accidents.
I can just imagine your statement above (or that chute being attached to) the gentleman that got drug by his bike stuck to a footpeg.... yeah, that chute would of been one hell of an opposing force.
Todd

[Ratliff]

Explain to me (blah blah blah)

Instead, I'd like you to explain how you can with a clear mind ruin threads that would otherwise be extremely beneficial to the average LSR racer (even most of the veterans and officials that are forced through your drivel are blowing you off).

JW, maybe a "I'm more brilliant because of the people I know and read about, if you don't believe me just look back through my posts where I tell you so" section would allow the newbie lsr racers to get involved in some of the average poster's threads.

Ratcliff, why do you have to overwhelm everythread you get involved in. You are steering people away from what gets them hurt by talking about a rider chute that I'm sure less then 1% of the MC pilots and the organizations care about, and less then that would benefit from... even if it were the sliced bread you claim it to be.

I've thought about this as open minded as I can. After envisioning every possible scenario's outcome on the concrete at Maxton (the outcomes I envision when I inspect bikes always include looking their family in the eye if something goes wrong), I can tell you with no uncertainty that if someone shows up with a rider chute as part of their gear, I will fail them without a second thought. And it will take the president, the race director and another inspector's signature to get that person on the track.
Todd

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4249.15.html

Read my comments about and 1999 interview with Bret Kepner on the subject of driver capsules for drag cars.

That's another area of racing safety where instead of being guided by imagination and an open mind it took preventable injuries and deaths for progress to be made.

Below is a link to an article on Draglist.com with 2001 e-mails to NHRA board member Dick Wells on the subject of fire protection and cockpit intrusion.

http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Dec%202001/SOD-121201.htm

[Super Kaz]

i love this site---lets see what the options are---scenerio--you are going down the salt at around 200 mph you find yourself sepreated from your bike you know you are going to hit the ground in 1 second --option 1 -- hit the ground slide and tumble for what will be an eternity breaking both shoulder blades a collar bone and putting a rib through your lung and breaking an arm and a couple of fingers if you are lucky ---option 2 hit the ground with the chute open slide on your back and ass (thanks to the chute ) slide for a short distance  get up shake yourself off and take a bow to the crowd  --  lets see   sign franklin and I  up for option 2   ---willie  buchta

willie,
I don't really Like too Talk about this subject {CRASHING},but in The Spirt that it could maybe save someone's Life I'll try !Watch where you riding as there are LAKES OF WATER at Bonneville ! I made the Big Mistake to Not Know where I was riding{while Warming up my Bike before BUB 04} the course was very Wet the 1st day and I went from 180mph to about 130mph running into a puddle on the course. I smashed my helmet into my fairing,but managed to ride it out and made a 156mph pass :x!Another racer went 160mph on his 250mph Turbo Hayabusa,and said  it was the Worst course ever! I was Glad that it wasn't supposed to be like that,but had no prior experience before !The Next day the course had dried out much better and was told to go test the salt{I'll leave at that},and I took off like an Idiot towards the mountains.
I just clicked 5th gear and was really impressed at how hard and Fast the Salt was :lol:!
I Looked ahead and saw a Silvery Shinny Mirage
I blinked my eye's and realized it was WATER I was about to run into a Lake at 140mph :x!
It was only about 6-8 inches deep,but at that speed on a motorcycle I crashed my azz off and destroyed my bike !
I was so far from the Pit's if I would have been hurt or knocked out it could have been  my LIFE!
I was blessed to be able to walk away,but I race in the Best MotoGP Leather's,Boot's,Helmet,and Gloves I could find.
Thankfully I was seen by the portable Dyno Guy,and he came and resqued me.
I've Crashed BAD Before,and would like to be able to walk when I'm 60 so I try to wear the safest riding gear possible.
RACING IS DANGEROUS ,but Stuff happen's.
Wear a back protector,and say your Prayer's as this ride could be your Last..............
Sorry for the long post,
Kaz......................
!

[Ratliff]

Explain to me (blah blah blah)

Instead, I'd like you to explain how you can with a clear mind ruin threads that would otherwise be extremely beneficial to the average LSR racer (even most of the veterans and officials that are forced through your drivel are blowing you off).

JW, maybe a "I'm more brilliant because of the people I know and read about, if you don't believe me just look back through my posts where I tell you so" section would allow the newbie lsr racers to get involved in some of the average poster's threads.

Ratcliff, why do you have to overwhelm everythread you get involved in. You are steering people away from what gets them hurt by talking about a rider chute that I'm sure less then 1% of the MC pilots and the organizations care about, and less then that would benefit from... even if it were the sliced bread you claim it to be.

I've thought about this as open minded as I can. After envisioning every possible scenario's outcome on the concrete at Maxton (the outcomes I envision when I inspect bikes always include looking their family in the eye if something goes wrong), I can tell you with no uncertainty that if someone shows up with a rider chute as part of their gear, I will fail them without a second thought. And it will take the president, the race director and another inspector's signature to get that person on the track.
Todd

Prior to this thread, could you say by name the bike riders who had worn personnel drag chutes?

[isiahstites]

What started out as an interesting thread on safety has turned for the worse, if people on here do not like someone or there comments then do not answer there questions or reply to there posts, you are only adding fuel to the fire.

Scott

[John Romero]

Although desotoman provided some excellent insight to this subject a few posts back (he is an ex (current?) boat racer) I want to add another point.

The main danger with a rider/driver crashing on water at high speed (over 100 MPH) it the waters ability to grab arms. legs and head and breaking the attaching bones. If you happen to find yourself going 125 MPH on water feet first you are in extreme danger of one of your feet catching the water and having it instantly pulled behind your head, breaking you leg and/or pelvis. The same is true if you are head first and it catches your head except it's your neck and you are paralyzed. When a person is skipping at high speed across water that person is in an incredibly dangerous situation and stopping that person by any means possible is the safest thing you can do. The drivers chute is essentially a static line system with the lanyard attached to the engine. When the driver gets ejected he moves away from the boat and his chute is pulled automatically.

On a bike, it's totally different. The rider is not ejected upward like is so common in a boat blow-over. He either comes off the back or low/high sides it. In all 3 cases the most dangerous time is immediately encountered and is the first contact with the ground. Once a slide is entered most of the danger, and damage is past. The chute wont help in this case as it will only open after the damage had been done.

Also, Dan made an excellent point earlier. There isn't a single day that passes at Bonneville where a chute doesn't open prematurely. If that happens with the bike going over about 30 MPH the rider is coming off the back of the bike and this "safety" item has just caused a wreck.

[Ratliff]

Just got a message from Warner where he said, "While reading this thread I am watching the MotoGP race from Laguna Seca. Lap 2 some guy high sides his bike and gets pitched about 12-14 ft. into the air. He falls into the sand trap and grabs his leg/ankle which would indicate an injury."

[John Romero]

Jack McClure, Arvil Porter, Larry Welch, John Dixon.

(A) Braver than most racers

(B) Smarter than most racers

(C) All of the above

(D) Not Franklin Ratliff

I pick D.

[John Romero]

Just got a message from Warner where he said, "While reading this thread I am watching the MotoGP race from Laguna Seca. Lap 2 some guy high sides his bike and gets pitched about 12-14 ft. into the air. He falls into the sand trap and grabs his leg/ankle which would indicate an injury."

So are you now suggesting parachutes for MotoGP riders?

[Ratliff]

Just got a message from Warner where he said, "While reading this thread I am watching the MotoGP race from Laguna Seca. Lap 2 some guy high sides his bike and gets pitched about 12-14 ft. into the air. He falls into the sand trap and grabs his leg/ankle which would indicate an injury."

So are you now suggesting parachutes for MotoGP riders?

I was suggesting, "How high might someone get pitched off a bike that's going about a hundred miles per faster than that MotoGP bike?"