why are 2and 4 strokes in the same class?

[landracing]

Dang Kaz I guess you should have picked a better bike.

Rich has hit it on the head, either race the stuff you got or buy a faster bike.

Most will build to the class instead of building and whining about the class.

Mucho respect for Rich, Rich isn't the fastest guy out there in the stuff he runs, but I would venture to say he is one of the most innovative, and gains many respeco points with me. Not many UPS shipments to his house. He builds everything in house.


Jon

[jimmy six]

When something comes along in a few years to beat the busas then everyone with the $$ will buy those. Kawas had it before and now for the most part they don't...law of supply and demand. I run vintage engines because I want too not because I have too.

[Roadster943]

 
  I have to say that I agree with Stan and Rich on this one. We do not need any more classes. Vince

[racer x]

 I did not know asking a question was whining. I will build a bike for Bonniville and just wanted to make sure I understand the rules. Adding four stroke's would double the number of classes and that would be more work and trouble than it is worth. I work for an Aprilia dealer and have a lot of two stroke experience. I just like four strokes better thats all
Thank you all for answering my question

[RichFox]

There was no mention of two strokes in my maybe to crtical answer. As far as I know two strokes run with four strokes because they always have. Now please don't start on rotarys.

[Larry Forstall]

Since a two stroke has twice as many power pulses as a four stroke it has an inherent advantage given equal displacement. As a result most sanctioning bodies gave the four strokes more displacement to equalize the racing. In motorcycle GP racing it was 1000cc to 500cc two stroke. In Motocross it was 450cc to 250cc. The two strokes being lighter was an advantage in those forms of racing. At Bonneville the same should have applied but no one lobbied for change probably because of the limited number of competitors. In the current century it is a moot point as technology has advanced the four strokes past the smoky, thirsty two stroke. Direct injection could revive the two stroke and then this debate could also be revived. 

[racer x]

I originally built a direct injection two stroke for Landspeed racing and it was very fast. Over the years I have seen five rotary Suzuki motorbikes. Including one at maxton in June.Sadly I have never seen even start or run.
My feeling is the RS 250 and rd Yamahas are getting harder to find and a bit rare. but so are model A's

[Super Kaz]

Dang Kaz I guess you should have picked a better bike.

Rich has hit it on the head, either race the stuff you got or buy a faster bike.

Most will build to the class instead of building and whining about the class.

Mucho respect for Rich, Rich isn't the fastest guy out there in the stuff he runs, but I would venture to say he is one of the most innovative, and gains many respeco points with me. Not many UPS shipments to his house. He builds everything in house.


Jon

AND BE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE ? NO I Dare to be Different,and have my own Personal Speed Goals,but it sure would be Nice to get a Few of those Hats
I Have Tried to do a Trade for a LSR Busa "a 5 Caret Diamond engagement ring worth 3X's what the Bikes Cost"
,but He Got Cold FEET :|! If I knew then what I know now Things would have been different.but I'm in Way too Deep Now to Quit:|!
Mad Max -"aka Kansas City Badman " has been my New Inspiration as he has the Ball's & $$$$$ to do it His Way ! The Same with Denis Manning 8-)!
Any Monkey with a Check Book can Buy a 250mph Turbo Hayabusa,but it takes a Real FOOL to try it on a HD V-Rod !
I'm doing it my Way even though just about every Other Racing Organization gives a CC or Weight break to even things up !
Believe me I had No Flippin Idea How hard ,and Expensive it would be to do what I'm doing!
I will have to be Happy with my own personal Goal's, and if I'm Lucky enough to get a Record or a RED,GREEN,BLUE,? 200mph Club Hat That would be Awesome,but when You building something that has Never been Built before ignorance is Bliss. I know my motor will Never stay together to make 500+rwhp even though I have the Turbo,and enough Fuel to make the power the stock cases ventilate at a little over 300rwhp ! Ever Built a Worlds Most Powerful DOHC V-Twin before?
Me neither and they aren't cheap in Time ,Money,and Labor :x!
If you think I'm WHINNING go ahead and Roast me all you want it just makes me More Determined to attain my Lofty Goal's!
It's staying afloat till that time comes is the Hardest Part!
Can't we all just get along ?
I'm going back to working on my Bike.
See Ya on the Salt,
Kaz.............


P.S
I'm not trying start a Fight with anyone,but Please try to be a Little more Courteous with your comment as Even HD Racer's{This one does} Have Feelings too.
Thank You in advance!

[dwarner]

"...came from Professional Drag Racing backround,and in NHRA PSM Look who's winning."

Kaz,

Just goes to show that when we say that NHRA is not directly applicable to LSR we kinda know.

DW

[mtkawboy]

I say this jokingly but my dad told me my whole life that if youre going to be dumb, you have to be tough. Rules I still live by and pass on to my son.  I admire what youre doing but you knew going in that it wasnt going to run with the Busas, no one is putting you down for your effort at least not me. Ill stop by and say hello next week, good luck

[panic]

Re: "Do you think 2 strokes are at a disadvantage because they are old?"
Not that long ago, NHRA allowed 2-strokes a handicap over OHV.

There is as much, if not greater disparity in output between a 1950 DKW/Hummer/Bantam engine and a modern PWC/snowmobile than between a 1950 OHV engine and a modern DOHC.

"two stroke has twice as many power pulses as a four stroke it has an inherent advantage given equal displacement", the theory used to be "but of course the BMEP is down, so it zeros out, right"?
Not with a liquid or even fan-cooled engine.

Re: "you should have picked a better bike"
You say that as if it were something more than your personal opinion.
Why don't we just compare bank statements?

[John Noonan]

kaz wrote:

Any Monkey with a Check Book can Buy a 250mph Turbo Hayabusa

Kaz,

Remember that the hat is a privilege and not a right..

Going to be several people running for that same Red Hat in the 1350 BF class that you are shooting for , I feel the Bonneville 200mph club should require a minimum speed of at least 215-220mph for inclusion in to the 2-club, after all I did it back in 2002 my very first try at Bville and I was not even the fastest naked rider at that time..I think they can require a new minimum at the salt before and or during the event if they feel the current record speed or minimum is too low.

[narider]

Here's my view in relation to the written word of the SCTA rulebook and 2-strokes.

The 2-strokes have a specific class they should run on imo, and it is not with the 4-strokes.  Omega class (in article 7.J.13 on page 121 of the 2008 rules and records book), clearly states that it is for "an engine using thermodynamic cycle other then Otto".

I grew up being taught (and have yet to learn otherwise), that the Otto cycle was made up of 4-strokes, there in (by definition) not only allowing but actually forcing the 2-stroke (non-Otto) engines to run in the Omega class.

The ECTA allows 2-strokes to run in their own class designated strictly for 2-strokes. (I don't believe this was done for revenue btw, it was done in fairness to future competitors in the knowledge that a 750cc 2stroke had already surpassed the 200mph mark at Bonneville... which is as far as I know something a 4-stroke 750cc still has yet to achieve NA over 20 years later).  I believe the 2-strokes are capable by the rules to run in the Omega class at ECTA also (as well as the 2 stroke classes), but have only discussed this with one other racer as I was sure if it was found out and permitted it would be another way to win the points championship (something I've had more then my share of competing in, at least until ALL the classes have records in them and more reason to bring this up here). I'm guessing and hoping this post will bring on the necessary conversation and discussion that will end in a decision one way or the other for both organizations.

Just my thoughts as I see them (always opened to being schooled by those longer lived "AND/OR" wiser then myself). If this (2-stroke in the Omega class) is not permittible by the SCTA or the ECTA, I believe it should be noted specifically in the rulebooks where the 2-strokes are and/or are not allowed to run (and yes, I plan to submit a rule clarification request in that regard for the next rulebook).
Todd

[narider]

kaz wrote:
Any Monkey with a Check Book can Buy a 250mph Turbo Hayabusa

Monkey for monkey, the Busa primate will always be faster then the primate on the confused Harley. This is due to the fact that the monkey has to have the intelligence to know the difference between a pen and a stick to write the check, and this is the first in a series of decisions that will inevitably end in what type of football that monkey will be riding. 

BTW, a couple guys were getting "the hat" over 35 years ago with bikes (real Harleys, imagine that), that came from the factory with less then 60hp. 

I still put a little time here and there in my 60hp Harley.
Todd - just another checkbookless and penfree monkey

[racer x]

 The difference between modified gas or fuel. And modified partial streamliner gas or fuel is 15 to 20 mph. The difference between fuel and gas is even less. the difference between a two stroke and a four stroke is like 60 mph . At least below 500 cc most of the fuel and gas records are held by the same people. I think there is an argument for a separate classes . but It would be better if it was an agreement and not an argument.