why are 2and 4 strokes in the same class?

[Dean Los Angeles]

I'm really sure that your opinion of the Otto cycle is incorrect as far as the rules. The reference to Otto cycle for UG, UF and Omega it to differentiate between internal combustion, reciprocating, ignition engines and all the rest. Based on the number of two cycle records I'd say that's the case.

Omega is for external combustion engines like steam, stirling cycle, and internal combustion like wankel.

Extreme clarity has never been the SCTA rule makers strong point.

Ask the motorcycle rules committee their interpretation.

[RichFox]

I think the Wankel runs with the Otto cycle engines

[narider]

you read the headline but you didnt read the whole paper--nikelaus otto didnt patent the otto cycle motor someone else did but he was the one to make it work --the correct term for the otto cycle engine is " four stroke cycle " the correct term for the two stroke cycle engine is "atkinson cycle" named after the inventor--i think what most people are talking about when they say otto cyce is the internal combustion piston engine--and that includes the SCTA  willie buchta

You know Willie, sometimes the simplest of words make the most sense.... you formed yours to do just that.
I read the entire patent literature(along with twenty other papers at least), and wanted to say something that my mind couldn't get to my hands, so I figured I'd wait until I could form the words. And there you come along with words good enough to help pose and submit - the question, the answer and a clarification reccomendation all at once... nice paragraph.

Omega is for external combustion engines like steam, stirling cycle, and internal combustion like wankel.

If those were the words under the Omega class then this discussion wouldn't be taking place.

Extreme clarity has never been the SCTA rule makers strong point.

Exactly... no one is trying to make a decision for the SCTA or for it's MC committee in this discussion. The purpose should be to take Eric's original question (while considering the original intent & current interpretation of the rule as well as the history of the classes in question), and try to help other SCTA members not have a reason to ask that question again (because this sure isn't the first time it has been asked to be clarified). Clarification will be the route to go, a rule change would be best left to being done after that clarification (understanding what is already there), if someone would think it needs done. I think Tom and Willie have both helped alot in that task already.
Todd

[willieworld]

i dont know if i helped or not ---but i look at it like this --you have your push rod engines-hd-buel-triumph-bsa-norton-vincent-ect-most are 1920s technology at best----then you have the 2 strokes most were smaller cc dirt bikes with a few exceptions --then the overhead cam engines all the way up to the busas---i think if you are going to race you have to decide what you want to run and why--some of us have a favorite brand --some dont care about brands-- they are more concerned about records or going fast --bottom line we are all in this boat together and as far as ive seen so far were all rowing in the same direction--thats a good thing--one of the greatest group of people ive ran across---you all drive safe on the way to bonneville  ---see you all there   willie buchta

[John Noonan]

i dont know if i helped or not ---but i look at it like this --you have your push rod engines-hd-buel-triumph-bsa-norton-vincent-ect-most are 1920s technology at best----then you have the 2 strokes most were smaller cc dirt bikes with a few exceptions --then the overhead cam engines all the way up to the busas---i think if you are going to race you have to decide what you want to run and why--some of us have a favorite brand --some dont care about brands-- they are more concerned about records or going fast --bottom line we are all in this boat together and as far as ive seen so far were all rowing in the same direction--thats a good thing--one of the greatest group of people ive ran across---you all drive safe on the way to bonneville  ---see you all there   willie buchta

Willie,

Well said.

See you and Sheri on the salt.. :lol:

J

[TouringComet]

Are you sure a Vincent is in the push rod class?  I haven't kept up with the rules lately, but as recently as a few years ago, Vincents weren't considered push rod motors because their push rods were not long enough.  The SCTA had (or still has) an unusual definition of a push rod motor that excluded the Vincent.

[Super Kaz]

i dont know if i helped or not ---but i look at it like this --you have your push rod engines-hd-buel-triumph-bsa-norton-vincent-ect-most are 1920s technology at best----then you have the 2 strokes most were smaller cc dirt bikes with a few exceptions --then the overhead cam engines all the way up to the busas---i think if you are going to race you have to decide what you want to run and why--some of us have a favorite brand --some dont care about brands-- they are more concerned about records or going fast --bottom line we are all in this boat together and as far as ive seen so far were all rowing in the same direction--thats a good thing--one of the greatest group of people ive ran across---you all drive safe on the way to bonneville  ---see you all there   willie buchta

Willie,

Well said.

See you and Sheri on the salt.. :lol:

J

Well My World's Fastest Brothern,
I've been out Testing my M-BF 1350cc Tunbo V-rod{190+ today} ,and I have to ADMIT it's Way Harder then it Looks !!!
I've had Over Flowing Coolant Bottle Top's Blowing off at 190mph+ with my face right next to it :|!
I Was told by Sam Terranova{My Engine Builder & Master} to change the old Radiator Cap and flush the Cooling system 2 times and fill with special water wetter 8-)Then i'll,be all be ready for another testing session{Hopefully the Last Testing session before leaving for  B-ville!I have to figure out the coolant problem}Then we will be Leaving the morning of the 17th{GOD WILLING }
Good Luck and Hope to see you all and we all Run Great 8-)!
Stay Safe Towing in and lets all Hook up at the Landing Racing shindig{I have a special S&W Buchtas' Pot roast to eat 1st }
Then Jim Price and I will be staying in his  Awesome $400 camper will hang out with all you rich,and famous racer's and have some good fun !
Talk to ya all real soon,
Kaz.......

[willieworld]

you know t.c. you may be right all of the records i could find for the vincent were in the non pushrod class----and scta does have a strange rule for pushrod motors---the camshaft shall be located at least one crankshaft stroke below the oem cylinder deck position or that utilize oem pushrod length at least twice the crankshaft stroke-----i always wondered why that rule was in the book---never to old to learn something  thanks for the info--willie buchta

[John Noonan]

Kaz,

Like I said on the phone:
Make sure you are ready early as Michelle, Doug, Bob, Jason or ... or perhaps another TURBO HAYABUSA racer runs on that little 205+ record..

See you there....

J

[racin jason]

Right you are John. that little 205 will be 230+ by the end of the week.
I ran 236mph in the middle mile at WF last year before i burnt a piston pushing it in the 5th mile.

[John Noonan]

Right you are John. that little 205 will be 230+ by the end of the week.
I ran 236mph in the middle mile at WF last year before i burnt a piston pushing it in the 5th mile.

Jason,

Maybe we can push that record later and have a girl or two take it early (not Kaz)..?

[Super Kaz]

Right you are John. that little 205 will be 230+ by the end of the week.
I ran 236mph in the middle mile at WF last year before i burnt a piston pushing it in the 5th mile.

Jason,

Maybe we can push that record later and have a girl or two take it early (not Kaz)..?

John you do what ever you want as you will Never Change

[Ratliff]

I'm really sure that your opinion of the Otto cycle is incorrect as far as the rules. The reference to Otto cycle for UG, UF and Omega it to differentiate between internal combustion, reciprocating, ignition engines and all the rest. Based on the number of two cycle records I'd say that's the case.

Omega is for external combustion engines like steam, stirling cycle, and internal combustion like wankel.

Extreme clarity has never been the SCTA rule makers strong point.

Ask the motorcycle rules committee their interpretation.

In 1973, there was total of twelve SCTA classes for open bikes. All based solely on engine displacement and fuel type. Six fuel classes. Six gas classes. Frame type or frame modifications were irrelevant because there was no such thing as a production class. To set a record you had to be the fastest for your displacement class on gas or the fastest for your displacement class on fuel. Period.

[John Romero]

In 1973, there was total of twelve SCTA classes for open bikes. All based solely on engine displacement and fuel type. Six fuel classes. Six gas classes. Frame type or frame modifications were irrelevant because there was no such thing as a production class. To set a record you had to be the fastest for your displacement class on gas or the fastest for your displacement class on fuel. Period.

I wonder how many times you have pasted that exact same paragraph on this board. This is the second time just today. Hell, you posted this less than 4 minutes after you posted the exact same paragraph in another thread. ==> http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4533.msg60542.html#msg60542

spam spam spam......

[Nortonist 592]

In 1973, there was total of twelve SCTA classes for open bikes. All based solely on engine displacement and fuel type. Six fuel classes. Six gas classes. Frame type or frame modifications were irrelevant because there was no such thing as a production class. To set a record you had to be the fastest for your displacement class on gas or the fastest for your displacement class on fuel. Period.

I wonder how many times you have pasted that exact same paragraph on this board. This is the second time just today. Hell, you posted this less than 4 minutes after you posted the exact same paragraph in another thread. ==> http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4533.msg60542.html#msg60542

spam spam spam......

He's got a point there.   The way the nitpickers are going soon we'll be getting questions as to why red bikes are allowed to race with blue bikes.  OHC and two strokes are in the same class.  Pushrod and flatties are in other classes.  Thats the way it is.  Get over it and go race.  Jeez!